GraphiTI.. AGAIN?!?

[CompWiz]

Don't tell me you were fooled by Intel's "Ghz is everything" marketing ploy.

You've got a fixation.

yeah. Come over to the amd intel discussion thread and lets talk about it.

Yeah, I agree also. But when you have a nice fast system with plenty of ram, the importance of that is diminished. I don't really care if firefox uses 5mb or 500.

Well, I'm somehow not happy to be forced to upgrade my hardware just to keep the experience the same...

I didn't upgrade to get better firefox performance. It was more for videogames, and just to get away from a P4(what a nightmare). And yes, videogames do require user interaction, and also require a powerful system.

[Timendus]

Timendus, how? I didn't restart Opera since I booted the machine, which was about 2 days, and I used it extensively. I had quite a few tabs open at one point. I don't see how that isn't a valid comparision.

Your comparison was this:

Java hogs memory >> C++ or whatever may be a better alternative to Java
Firefox hogs memory >> Opera may be a better alternative to Firefox

This is all correct, BUT Firefox hogging memory is a leak that they intend to fix, and not a feature. It is inherent to the Java VM (and to the entire concept of the Java language) that it is very memory intensive. That makes it a bad choice for many applications. Firefox on the other hand, may have a bug, but that is not per say inherent in it's design, and will probably be fixed soon enough. If they fix that leak, there will be no reason to choose Opera over Firefox, memory wise. But Java will always be as it is now.

The second comparison mentioned is that Opera uses less RAM than Firefox with equal usage, when this usage involves closing a few tabs. So I objected that this is a bug in Firefox, and you shouldn't close any tabs or you'll get a biased comparison, based on that known bug.

[CompWiz]

Nevermind that it's a word processor that for some reason requires a pentium 4 3Ghz or equivalent to work properly...

hey, if you have something worse than a P4 3ghz(banish the thought) you really need to upgrade. I'm sure the employee getting the new computer would be happy about it.

I have a celeron 2.4 ghz. And i don't have money for a whole new computer.

You're acting like modern 3Ghz p4 are just normal, although they have multiples of the strength of '80s supercomputers. And yet you are saying you need it for something as simple as word processing, something a z80 could do.

that's not what I said. And also, P4 cpu's are not modern cpu's. They are a collection of obsolete and badly implemented technologies that should have been thrown away years ago. For example:
1) Strained Silicon
2) FSB
3) Long pipeline architecture
etc
and don't even get me started on the terrible dual core implementation. (or do, but in the amd intel debate forum)
In fact, they are even inferior to the p3 architecture, which was around how many years ago? Just what part of the P4 do you consider modern, anyway?
I could go on, and I'd be happy too. If you want to, come over to the amd intel debate thread and we can go on and on about this.

Anyway, what I said, was that in the situation that you said, basically an employee getting a new computer because a word processor required a faster computer, the employee was the one winning. Now he can run other programs faster also. Do you think he would complain about getting a new computer? I do think that people should optimize programs more, as I have stated. I was simply commenting on the situation we had outlined.

CompWiz. ... that isn't a solution at all. You shouldn't have to have more than one gig of RAM for a single program to be happy! Granted, I have a gig and it's not enough, but I run quite a few programs all the time, not just one.

Firefox doesn't require more than a gig. Like I said, with all those tabs(36 tabs) and after using if for a while, with plenty of websites, movie clips, music, google maps, windows live local, it was still only taking up some amount in the 200's of megabytes. So, you could easily run it with 1gig, and be happy. However, I do multitask alot, and play some videogames, both of which benifit from the extra gig of ram, whether I'm using firefox or not.

[CoBB]

yeah. Come over to the amd intel discussion thread and lets talk about it.

You might have missed the fact that I couldn't care less.

I didn't upgrade to get better firefox performance.

Try to see the big picture for a moment and consider a whole configuration. Does XP provide 20 times better user experience than Win95 for requiring 20 times more resources? I for one fail to see the major improvement on the user side. Just think about an office suite and how people are using them—it's been all the same for a very long time.

There's a very simple problem that comes to my mind that doesn't get cured no matter how much horsepower you add: crappy drivers and user applications for certain peripherals. You still have to struggle with printers, scanners, cameras and the like, unless you are of the lucky type these issues miraculously avoid.

Coding practices are getting worse and worse, that's the problem...

And yes, videogames do require user interaction, and also require a powerful system.

And they are nowhere near the old ones in spirit. They are definitely improving if we count graphics and sound, but they aren't any more fun to play in general.

[Liazon]

Coding practices are getting worse and worse, that's the problem...

What are good coding practices. I have never been formally taught how to program, I just kind of figured stuff out on my own and with other people's help, but I don't know exactly what's good or bad.

[CoBB]

What are good coding practices. I have never been formally taught how to program, I just kind of figured stuff out on my own and with other people's help, but I don't know exactly what's good or bad.

Good: actually caring about the quality of the code you produce, including minimising resource usage and bugs. You know, choosing the right tools, planning things on the grand scale instead of getting into an endless loop of ad hoc patching, testing code and usability, writing maintainable code (well organised and documented), and so on. No big secrets here. And it has nothing to do with formal education.

[CompWiz]

I didn't upgrade to get better firefox performance.

Try to see the big picture for a moment and consider a whole configuration. Does XP provide 20 times better user experience than Win95 for requiring 20 times more resources? I for one fail to see the major improvement on the user side. Just think about an office suite and how people are using themâ€â€Â

[benryves]

We really need a GoogleOS.

It'll be entirely white and never come out of beta. Why do you think Google, a company who chiefly write web-based applications, would be any good at writing an operating system?

[CompWiz]

We really need a GoogleOS.

It'll be entirely white and never come out of beta. Why do you think Google, a company who chiefly write web-based applications, would be any good at writing an operating system?

they've made a bunch of other good alternatives to microsoft programs. They are a collection of the best and brightest computer programmers. They've commited themselves to outdo microsoft.

And, basically, who else would or could be able to do it? Google is a big name. If they make an OS, people would certainly try it out.

[benryves]

Google Office? Google Visual Studio? Eh? :\

[CoBB]

yeah, I definitely agree. I don't think it will really improve until a good, easy to use OS comes along that will run on PC's and run Windows programs. Once Microsoft has some real competition, they will probably at least try to get their act together. We really need a GoogleOS.

Well, Linux is a quite heavy movement already, yet it couldn't produce any breakthrough on the GUI front during all these years. I'm sure the hegemony of Windows would end quite fast if a clearly superior alternative appeared on the stage.

Why do you think Google, a company who chiefly write web-based applications, would be any good at writing an operating system?

I think it's rather an issue of management. They definitely have an army of excellent developers (many of whom surely have participated in the development of other systems), the question is whether they can organise them to work together on such a big project.

[leofox]

hey, if you have something worse than a P4 3ghz(banish the thought) you really need to upgrade. I'm sure the employee getting the new computer would be happy about it.

I have a celeron 2.4 ghz. And i don't have money for a whole new computer.

You're acting like modern 3Ghz p4 are just normal, although they have multiples of the strength of '80s supercomputers. And yet you are saying you need it for something as simple as word processing, something a z80 could do.

that's not what I said. And also, P4 cpu's are not modern cpu's. They are a collection of obsolete and badly implemented technologies that should have been thrown away years ago. For example:
1) Strained Silicon
2) FSB
3) Long pipeline architecture
etc
and don't even get me started on the terrible dual core implementation. (or do, but in the amd intel debate forum)
In fact, they are even inferior to the p3 architecture, which was around how many years ago? Just what part of the P4 do you consider modern, anyway?
I could go on, and I'd be happy too. If you want to, come over to the amd intel debate thread and we can go on and on about this.

You are completely missing the point..
The p4 is a good product, but there are of course other products that are better. I would love to have a real p4.

Now you are just being like the game developers that look at you weird when you say you have a geforce 5200.

[CompWiz]

I have a celeron 2.4 ghz. And i don't have money for a whole new computer.

You're acting like modern 3Ghz p4 are just normal, although they have multiples of the strength of '80s supercomputers. And yet you are saying you need it for something as simple as word processing, something a z80 could do.

that's not what I said. And also, P4 cpu's are not modern cpu's. They are a collection of obsolete and badly implemented technologies that should have been thrown away years ago. For example:
1) Strained Silicon
2) FSB
3) Long pipeline architecture
etc
and don't even get me started on the terrible dual core implementation. (or do, but in the amd intel debate forum)
In fact, they are even inferior to the p3 architecture, which was around how many years ago? Just what part of the P4 do you consider modern, anyway?
I could go on, and I'd be happy too. If you want to, come over to the amd intel debate thread and we can go on and on about this.

You are completely missing the point..
The p4 is a good product, but there are of course other products that are better. I would love to have a real p4.

Now you are just being like the game developers that look at you weird when you say you have a geforce 5200.

Hey, I do have a geforce 5200. 128 MB, overclocked quite heavily. However, that was in my old P4 computer. It worked pretty well. It ran almost all games fine, as long as the detail wasn't too high. And it was cheap. I am enjoying the new BFG 7800 I have now though.

And no, the P4 was not a good product. The entire architecture was based upon a flawed concept. Even the P3 had a better architecture, and it was around long before the P4. Look now, how the almightly conroe is coming out, basically a slightly modified P3 that pounds P4's to the ground. Intel even came out and said that the P4's were bad. They said that they were rushed because of competitive pressure, and were not very well implemented. Plus, they use a ton of power, so electric bills end up costing you more than the computer. The excess heat that they produce can damage the motherboard(a bunch of VRM's on Dell computer motherboards exploded because of this) and does shorten the life of the electronics around it. Look at this poll, from a Hexus, a site that has been known for it's bias towards Intel.

apparently, no one wants P4, except you.

[Shadow Phoenix]

I have a p4, and it works for me. I use my system for gaming.other stuff, and it works just nicely. Of course it would be nice to upgrade to conroe/AM2, but I dont feel the need to. I can easily run FEAR/Eve/FF with a lot of tabs/WMP/FoldingAtHome/Word/PhotoShop(to make sigs)/Download Manager going nicely, and it doesnt lag in FEAR.

[CompWiz]

so, do you pay for electricity? And you do have air conditioning, right? P4's use a lot of power and make a lot of heat, so as long as your case is well ventilated, and you(or whoever pays for it) doesn't mind paying a bit extra for all the electricity it's using, then ok, a high end p4 computer will work somewhat decently. However, you do really have no cpu upgrade path, and terrible latency, plus a terribly inefficient space-heater of a cpu, built on obsolete technology.