The Da Vinci Code - The movie

elfprince13 · Post by **elfprince13** » Mon 05 Jun, 2006 4:24 am

if you judge the accuracy of the bible by the same standards as other historical works, it is considered to be one of the most reliable sources in history and is constantly being backed up by archaeology.

second, as has been pointed out the gospels were all written before 100ad. The rest of the new testament is letters written by various important people in the early church (mostly paul). The old testament is all taken from the jewish scriptures.

If you people who bash christianity want to be taken seriously at all by people who actually study this stuff, at least know what you are talking about.

Arcane WIzard · Post by **Arcane WIzard** » Mon 05 Jun, 2006 9:48 am

elfprince13 wrote:if you judge the accuracy of the bible by the same standards as other historical works, it is considered to be one of the most reliable sources in history and is constantly being backed up by archaeology.

"Seek and ye shall find."

But how much evidence is there for water having been turned into wine? Jesus standing on water? People being cured by his touch?

Oh then we suddenly have to be faithfull.

Get over it, it's a story no matter how historically accurate it is. If you can't deal with that then you may wish to look at your own motivations for this faith first, instead of debating with others and accusing them that they don't know what they're talking about. Chances are they know more about the meaning of faith than you do.

elfprince13 · Post by **elfprince13** » Mon 05 Jun, 2006 11:03 am

Arcane WIzard wrote:
elfprince13 wrote:if you judge the accuracy of the bible by the same standards as other historical works, it is considered to be one of the most reliable sources in history and is constantly being backed up by archaeology.
"Seek and ye shall find."

But how much evidence is there for water having been turned into wine? Jesus standing on water? People being cured by his touch?

Oh then we suddenly have to be faithful.

Get over it, it's a story no matter how historically accurate it is. If you can't deal with that then you may wish to look at your own motivations for this faith first, instead of debating with others and accusing them that they don't know what they're talking about. Chances are they know more about the meaning of faith than you do.

unlike your average net browsing christian, I know a fair bit about apologetics. If you want to really understand what you are arguing against I suggest you learn something about it yourself from. You might even find books on it to be useful so you can try to strengthen your arguments. So instead of making personal attacks try to doing something truly revolutionary and actually learn something, then rebut the issue at hand, not the other debaters' religious background which you know nothing about.

If you are too blind to look at this objectively simply because of your dislike for Christianity you are only hurting yourself.

Post by **kv83** » Mon 05 Jun, 2006 12:11 pm

If you are so well known and have all mighty knowledge, then don't be afraid to share it with us, elfprince. Till now you only are pointing at other people saying they don't know anything.

If you are too blind to look at this objectively simply because of your are Christian you are only hurting yourself.

Arcane WIzard · Post by **Arcane WIzard** » Mon 05 Jun, 2006 1:07 pm

elfprince13 wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:
elfprince13 wrote:if you judge the accuracy of the bible by the same standards as other historical works, it is considered to be one of the most reliable sources in history and is constantly being backed up by archaeology.
"Seek and ye shall find."

But how much evidence is there for water having been turned into wine? Jesus standing on water? People being cured by his touch?

Oh then we suddenly have to be faithful.

Get over it, it's a story no matter how historically accurate it is. If you can't deal with that then you may wish to look at your own motivations for this faith first, instead of debating with others and accusing them that they don't know what they're talking about. Chances are they know more about the meaning of faith than you do.
unlike your average net browsing christian, I know a fair bit about apologetics. If you want to really understand what you are arguing against I suggest you learn something about it yourself from. You might even find books on it to be useful so you can try to strengthen your arguments. So instead of making personal attacks try to doing something truly revolutionary and actually learn something, then rebut the issue at hand, not the other debaters' religious background which you know nothing about.

If you are too blind to look at this objectively simply because of your dislike for Christianity you are only hurting yourself.

How much evidence is there for water having been turned into wine? Jesus standing on water? People being cured by his touch?

No more excuses this time, please. Just an answer relating to those questions and how much the bible is backed by scientific facts. We'll get back to how much of a Christian hater I am, for expressing doubt in anyone's faith, afterwards.

Post by **L4E_WakaMol-King** » Mon 05 Jun, 2006 3:27 pm

Yeah... as I said... religious debates tend to go down hill.

Arcane WIzard · Post by **Arcane WIzard** » Mon 05 Jun, 2006 5:45 pm

And people who exaggerate and complain immedeately should be banned, but I don't see that getting fixed either.

Shh!

leofox · Post by **leofox** » Tue 06 Jun, 2006 3:47 pm

actually, one science guy gave an explanation for Jezus standing on water:
When Jezus lived, there were changes between cold and warm periods or something. I don't know the details, but the gist of it was that he was standing on a little ice shelf. The ice shelf was pushed partly underwater because of his weight, and it would appear that he was standing on water.

I don't think that it was actually Jezus who did that though. I think it happened to one random guy once, but oral history changed it, as it often does.
"oh i heard of this guy standing on water"
"have you heard of Jezus? he was standing on water!"
"wow, this jezus guy is amazing, he was running on water, just like that!"

CompWiz · Post by **CompWiz** » Tue 06 Jun, 2006 3:56 pm

leofox wrote:actually, one science guy gave an explanation for Jezus standing on water:
When Jezus lived, there were changes between cold and warm periods or something. I don't know the details, but the gist of it was that he was standing on a little ice shelf. The ice shelf was pushed partly underwater because of his weight, and it would appear that he was standing on water.

I don't think that it was actually Jezus who did that though. I think it happened to one random guy once, but oral history changed it, as it often does.
"oh i heard of this guy standing on water"
"have you heard of Jezus? he was standing on water!"
"wow, this jezus guy is amazing, he was running on water, just like that!"

or maybe Jesus just did it, and it really was a miracle.

and it's spelled Jesus, not Jezus

Post by **kv83** » Tue 06 Jun, 2006 6:06 pm

Jezus is the dutch form. We (dutchies) make that mistake rather often

Arcane WIzard · Post by **Arcane WIzard** » Tue 06 Jun, 2006 7:54 pm

CompWiz wrote:
leofox wrote:actually, one science guy gave an explanation for Jezus standing on water:
When Jezus lived, there were changes between cold and warm periods or something. I don't know the details, but the gist of it was that he was standing on a little ice shelf. The ice shelf was pushed partly underwater because of his weight, and it would appear that he was standing on water.

I don't think that it was actually Jezus who did that though. I think it happened to one random guy once, but oral history changed it, as it often does.
"oh i heard of this guy standing on water"
"have you heard of Jezus? he was standing on water!"
"wow, this jezus guy is amazing, he was running on water, just like that!"
or maybe Jesus just did it, and it really was a miracle.

and it's spelled Jesus, not Jezus

Or maybe all the spectators had too many shroomz.

Faith > "maybe"

CompWiz · Post by **CompWiz** » Wed 07 Jun, 2006 12:14 am

kv83 wrote:Jezus is the dutch form. We (dutchies) make that mistake rather often

ah, I see. I was wondering why you were spelling it that way. well, whichever way suits you.

elfprince13 · Post by **elfprince13** » Wed 07 Jun, 2006 1:56 am

If you are so well known and have all mighty knowledge, then don't be afraid to share it with us, elfprince. Till now you only are pointing at other people saying they don't know anything.

who said anything about being well known?

Arcane WIzard wrote:
elfprince13 wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:"Seek and ye shall find."

But how much evidence is there for water having been turned into wine? Jesus standing on water? People being cured by his touch?

Oh then we suddenly have to be faithful.

Get over it, it's a story no matter how historically accurate it is. If you can't deal with that then you may wish to look at your own motivations for this faith first, instead of debating with others and accusing them that they don't know what they're talking about. Chances are they know more about the meaning of faith than you do.
unlike your average net browsing christian, I know a fair bit about apologetics. If you want to really understand what you are arguing against I suggest you learn something about it yourself from. You might even find books on it to be useful so you can try to strengthen your arguments. So instead of making personal attacks try to doing something truly revolutionary and actually learn something, then rebut the issue at hand, not the other debaters' religious background which you know nothing about.

If you are too blind to look at this objectively simply because of your dislike for Christianity you are only hurting yourself.
How much evidence is there for water having been turned into wine? Jesus standing on water? People being cured by his touch?

No more excuses this time, please. Just an answer relating to those questions and how much the bible is backed by scientific facts. We'll get back to how much of a Christian hater I am, for expressing doubt in anyone's faith, afterwards.

scientific fact? evidence? I dont have any other than 4 eye witness accounts.

sadly there aren't really any unbiased sources. nonetheless http://www.everystudent.com/features/bible.html is a good summary of why I accept the bible is a being an accurate document, even if it isn't error free. (translated out of Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. Also see my post here on a related note about translation and the accuracy of the bible).

On a subject more related
to the original topic, http://www.jesusanddavinci.com/popcultu ... Question_1 takes apart DaVinci code from a Christian p.o.v.

Arcane WIzard · Post by **Arcane WIzard** » Wed 07 Jun, 2006 3:13 pm

Sigh.

My point was, and I'll literally quote it, that "it's a story no matter how historically accurate it is" and that if you can't get over that fact and must debate over technical issues about the bible's historical accuracy then you are not acting to the moral of the story in the bible.

Interestingly, bickering over it's historical accuracy because you felt offended, instead of confirming that the bible's falues and the faith it teaches are of infintely greater importance, is exactly what you chose to do.

Now, remove any blindness due to your liking of Christianity and see if you can read this objectively:

Get over it, it's a story no matter how historically accurate it is. If you can't deal with that then you may wish to look at your own motivations for this faith first, instead of debating with others and accusing them that they don't know what they're talking about. Chances are they know more about the meaning of faith than you do.

Ps. I saw that movie about Christ and I liked it. Jesus is a cool dude.

Fact is I can not dislike Christianity or the bible for many of it's core teachings match those of my favorite religions/philosophies. (Or any religions known to me for that matter.) So you can say that I dislike Christianity all you want, I and others who actually know my stance on religious thinking know how I really value Christianity.

Post by **L4E_WakaMol-King** » Wed 07 Jun, 2006 3:29 pm

Arcane WIzard wrote:Get over it, it's a story no matter how historically accurate it is.

What do you mean by story?