RPG storylines and advancement

[axcho]

To continue the discussion about encouraging experimentation of strategies, I suggest that varying strategies be necessary to progress in the game, but leveling up may be Lamarckian. It would give a strategic choice about whether to exploit existing strategies by using them more and getting stronger at them each time, versus exploring new strategies that may be more effective in the long run.

Every complex adaptive organization faces a fundamental tradeoff. A creature must balance perfecting a skill or trait (building up legs to run faster) against experimenting with new traits (wings). It can never do all things at once. This daily dilemma is labeled the tradeoff between exploration and exploitation.

~ Kevin Kelly, Chapter 5 of Out of Control

[DigiTan]

...or in English: "it rewards the gamer for adapting."

[Liazon]

wut does Lamarckian mean?

[kalan_vod]

Lamarckism is a now discredited theory of biological evolution developed by French biologist Jean-Baptiste Pierre Antoine de Monet, Chevalier de Lamarck in the 19th century. Lamarckism holds that traits acquired (or diminished) during the lifetime of an organism can be passed on to the offspring.

[Liazon]

wow i'd never have learned that in a Bio class. perhaps not even AP Bio

[DigiTan]

Well, you don't have to worry to about it in Bio class because it had absolutely nothing to do with this subject.

[axcho]

...or in English: "it rewards the gamer for adapting."

What I was trying to say is that you should use the third advancement method, but design your game so that the player needs to make new strategies to progress to later parts of the world.

I said "Lamarckian" because it was shorter than saying "the method where skills you use more often are strengthened while skills you do not either stay the same or weaken." I didn't mean to imply anything about inherited traits or biology. Though that might be an interesting twist on an RPG - reproduction and Lamarckian inheritance of skills?

[DigiTan]

Sorry axcho, I just had to razz you for using a word no one would know.

Since the polls are leaning toward the 3rd choice, calcul831415, maybe you can elaborate some more on what you had in mind?

[Liazon]

actually, i think the storyline might end up playing the greater role in deciding which method i use (if i ever learn enough ASM to make games). I'd prefer using the third method only because to non-RPG fans, it'd be more interesting, and there'd be a shorter learning curve. most people i know would rather not take time ot understand d20 unless they were already DND fans.

Also, i asked partially because I don't know which method (1 or 3) would be harder to program because i'm still a newbie. Based on my current knowledge of ASM, i think the #1 would require a larger program if I wanted to creat many classes, partly because I'd have to create a matrix/large variable in my program that defines class features.

On the other hand, i think #3 might slow the in game fighting down because the calc has to keep track of all the individual STAT XPs and know how much XP to add to which stat. This may be bad if I want to do a tactical RPG, which #3 probably fits better into.

Hey, you guys are the experts so I don't know if I'm rite. I just know i need to learn a lot of ASM before I can make an RPG, but i'm asking now for ideas so i can know what i should focus on learning first. Thanx!

[kalan_vod]

Sorry axcho, I just had to razz you for using a word no one would know.

Except for me! .
[/offtopic]
Yeah I really like your ideas, but you may just want to focus on learning asm then concentrate on you rpg idea.

[axcho]

Using method three should hardly slow down the program in assembly. Addition isn't too hard to do. Instead of using individual experience for each skill, you could store the skill strength in a two-byte integer and increment it each time the player uses it. That wouldn't be too different than using separate experience points, actually.

[DigiTan]

Heh heh. kalan, you stole that description from Wikipedia.

Speed will definately be a non-issue. In Robot War, each attack calculation involved 2 large data "tables" and an 18x11 moving queue and I still had to slow things down to just to make things playable. The main limit for RPGs is size, which will disappears quicker than space in a Loredo swimming pool...

At one point I was trying something similar to system #3. The idea was to detect if the gamer was favoring aggressive, defensive, or evasive strategies since his last level-up. What ruined the deal for me was the space eaten up by the system that was supposed to detect which strategy was being used. It could have worked if I had planned it from the beginning, but by then it was bulky, overcomplicated, and the effects weren't noticeable enough. If it had a more noticeable effect on the gamer's willingness to adjust, it could've worked ok.

[Liazon]

well hopefully i don't butcher the speed capabilities of ASM in the same way i butchered BASIC's programming speed. I'd be a really sad programmer if I made ASM slow with out trying lol.