I met Job the Gamequitter

Jim e · Post by **Jim e** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 4:18 am

That's the problem with the abortion topic, you can't be in the middle, you have to pick a side or stay out. I'll prefer to stay out from this point on.

Spengo wrote:There is still a death penalty in some states

_________________
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I might put my foot up your ass.

Timendus · Post by **Timendus** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 9:15 am

Spengo wrote:Clinton...well lets just say he wasn't the most honest guy we ever knew. Also, abortion is killing a person no matter HOW early or late it is in the pregnancy.

a) Ever heard of an honest president..? I liked Clinton... He (among others) kept my youth safe and prosperous

b) If I'm not mistaken here in the Netherlands aborting is forbidden after four months of pregnancy. Before that time the foetus has less intelligence than a mosquito, and I very much doubt you'll be screaming "Oh no, your killing a person!" when someone tries to squish a mosquito... I'm not saying that abortion is nothing, or should be taken lightly, but yes I'm quite sure my gf and me wouldn't have anything to offer to a child, except for it's life. But it would force her to miss the most important time of her life, and I'm pretty sure her parents would ban me out of her life, making it impossible to be a good father. In short; there are plenty of good reasons why one would choose to abort.

Hmm... wait... I'm having this discussion with American teenage nerds with no girlfriends or social lives... I must be insane

;)

pacHa · Post by **pacHa** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 10:09 am

benryves wrote:
kv83 wrote:
pacHa wrote: was that humor ?
if so, strange humor...
I guess it's american humor... I didn't catch it either :wink:
No, it's not humour at all - it's xenophobia, most prominently displayed by the USA. Not saying that it's the case for all, but the USA displays the largest group of them. See this thread for anti-French and anti-Canadian sentiments, for example.
Fortunately, I know a number of people from the USA (what's the correct term for someone from the US? It's not "American", because Argentinians, Canadians, Brazilians and so on are just as "American") who aren't all racist bigots, but the general attitude exhibited is overwhelmingly sickening.
Why else have they got such a terrible reputation? Why else are they one of the most hated nations in the world?
Thank goodness the people that visit this forum are not generally representive of this stereotype. I feel truly sorry that you have to put up with this badge. If only the rest of your nation could sort themselves out and get a grip on reality for a change.

Exactly what I feel.

But by reading what's been said by you guys (Spengo, Jim e, Madskillz...) I'm really scared by your conservativeness :|
That's sad imo to be so conservative so young. You're all prisonneers of your beliefs that are actually not yours but your father's, coming from a 20 centuries catholic culture.
It's quite the same in Europe (at least in France), but less strong hopefully.

And about the 'stereotype' about US citizens, I hope it's exagerated, but I still cannot understand why you guys still respect a guy who triggered a war without any valuable reason, by lying to the popluation, and who invaded a country to let in a real mess (yes it' a real mess, each day your GIs are killed and each day bombs explode there...that's pure unconciousness)

Post by **benryves** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 10:34 am

Unfortunately, politics is a huge thing in the US, and it's not something I've ever come across in any other country. People appear to hold on very tightly to their parties. I know of people who don't go shopping at certain places because they support a particular political party that go against their views. It's a different culture to that in, say, Europe. I know that in England nobody really seems to give a damn (referring to the public - of course the politicians care) and gets on with their lives as usual. If the current party in power decides to do something radical, there'll usually be a referendum (such as joining the Euro - something we're yet to do). Whilst I can respect this culture, it's a shame that the US is a bit of a bully about it and our Prime Minister tends to do anything he can to please the US. That said, he's probably only doing it so Bush doesn't decide we're all a bunch of terrorists and nuke us.

tokijnct · Post by **tokijnct** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 1:34 pm

The problem is...the USA has too much pride and thinks that their viewpoint is the correct path to follow. Such as the case with Iraq where we want a democracy to become the new government over the course of a few short years. Democracy looks like and seems like a really good type of government; however, it isn't something that works for every single nation because of religious factors and the like.
Just my two cents...

lloydkirk1989 · Post by **lloydkirk1989** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 3:47 pm

Hmm... wait... I'm having this discussion with American teenage nerds with no girlfriends or social lives... I must be insane

Actually, im a duel citizen of both America and England.....Im very social

But by reading what's been said by you guys (Spengo, Jim e, Madskillz...) I'm really scared by your conservativeness
That's sad imo to be so conservative so young. You're all prisonneers of your beliefs that are actually not yours but your father's, coming from a 20 centuries catholic culture.
It's quite the same in Europe (at least in France), but less strong hopefully.

And about the 'stereotype' about US citizens, I hope it's exagerated, but I still cannot understand why you guys still respect a guy who triggered a war without any valuable reason, by lying to the popluation, and who invaded a country to let in a real mess (yes it' a real mess, each day your GIs are killed and each day bombs explode there...that's pure unconciousness)

Im proud to be a conservative in my beliefs. By the way, America was founded by protestant Quakers( Pilgrims), not Catholics. As far as the war in Iraq, you're French, so why do you care. You have no evolvement in the war and therefore have no right to critizize it. The only reason the French government is the least bit interested, is because of the financial relationship they had with Iraq. They had stakes in Iraqi oil and sold Iraq numerous guided missles, which were never paid for.
This makes me very mad!

The French are always arming the wrong people at the wrong time, because all they care about is money.
For those of you who remember the Rwandan genocide in the early 1990's, the French were responsible for arming the Hutu tribe, who in turn massacred over 1 million civilian Tutsis.

DJ_O · Post by **DJ_O** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 3:57 pm

The Iraq war got lot of repercussion on some country. For example in Canada gas price started raising dramatically (from $0.65/liter to $0.93/liter in 3 months) because it was harder to get it. This made everything else price raise as well (potatoes, milk, bread, wood, metal, bus/taxi bill, etc.), then USA dollar lost value (one year ago $1 US= $0.65 and now $1 US= $0.85) so it cost more to US company to import our stuff so we can't sell our stuff anymore, everyone is losing their job because there is no more work to do. Basically our economy is going to do kaboom in a few month like it did in 1929

Post by **kv83** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 4:29 pm

lloydkirk1989 wrote:
If my gf would find out she's pregnant today (not a chance, but nonetheless), the abortion would be tomorrow... Think about the quality of her life and the child's...
solution=live a moral life and prevent things like that from happening

Ever heard from raping? You can be as moral as you want, and some fucked up guy comes along, and your life is screwed. Thanks for letting abortion be allowed in netherlands

Everyone has the right to critize a war. If they part or not.

pacHa · Post by **pacHa** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 4:47 pm

lloydkirk1989 wrote:
But by reading what's been said by you guys (Spengo, Jim e, Madskillz...) I'm really scared by your conservativeness :|
That's sad imo to be so conservative so young. You're all prisonneers of your beliefs that are actually not yours but your father's, coming from a 20 centuries catholic culture.
It's quite the same in Europe (at least in France), but less strong hopefully.

And about the 'stereotype' about US citizens, I hope it's exagerated, but I still cannot understand why you guys still respect a guy who triggered a war without any valuable reason, by lying to the popluation, and who invaded a country to let in a real mess (yes it' a real mess, each day your GIs are killed and each day bombs explode there...that's pure unconciousness)
Im proud to be a conservative in my beliefs. By the way, America was founded by protestant Quakers( Pilgrims), not Catholics.

you're right
I meant christians, sorry. But the idea is the same.

As far as the war in Iraq, you're French, so why do you care. You have no evolvement in the war and therefore have no right to critizize it.

Of course I care. I do not only care about what's happening 10km around me, of course.
I'm proud of what my government dared to do, what UK did not (it's a shame btw).
I care because I know innocent people are having their country currently totally detroyed, and their families broken.

The only reason the French government is the least bit interested, is because of the financial relationship they had with Iraq. They had stakes in Iraqi oil and sold Iraq numerous guided missles, which were never paid for.
This makes me very mad! :evil: The French are always arming the wrong people at the wrong time, because all they care about is money.

That's true, but please, please, let me laugh.
We have sold weapons, that's true, and that was horrible.
But please tell me who armed Iran, who armed Iraq, who set up Pinochet, who helped Israel to allow them making war to Palestine, tell me please.
And please also tell me why US made a war in Iraq, why ? Do NOT tell me it's because Saddam was a horrible dictator, because US did help such dictators.
We all know (except US citizens, unfortunately) that the reason is money.
You might not know it because of your crappy corrupted TV channels, who made all of you think was on Iraq was fair. You're blinded, guys.

For those of you who remember the Rwandan genocide in the early 1990's, the French were responsible for arming the Hutu tribe, who in turn massacred over 1 million civilian Tutsis.

True again (I think). But remember all your dictators.

DJ_O · Post by **DJ_O** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 5:23 pm

I agree that sometime TV news is shit. They claimed that Iraq was was to find Nuke weapons and catch Saddam, but in fact it was mostly for stealing the petrol

(I don't know how many time the words f* and s* have been said in this thread but I'm sure it has been said at least 10 times

and this thread should be merged with the debate thread )

dysfunction · Post by **dysfunction** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 5:36 pm

Timendus wrote:after four months of pregnancy. Before that time the foetus has less intelligence than a mosquito, and I very much doubt you'll be screaming "Oh no, your killing a person!" when someone tries to squish a mosquito... I'm not saying that abortion is nothing, or should be taken lightly, but yes I'm quite sure my gf and me wouldn't have anything to offer to a child, except for it's life. But it would force her to miss the most important time of her life, and I'm pretty sure her parents would ban me out of her life, making it impossible to be a good father. In short; there are plenty of good reasons why one would choose to abort.

I'm sure you all remember from the old debate thread that I'm pretty liberal (pro gay marriage, pacifist, etc) but I personally am against abortion. Sure, at that stage the fetus may not resemble a human, or approach human intelligence, but that does not mean the fetus will not soon become a human child and eventually a human adult. This is different from the anti-masturbation argument- it is extremely unlikely that an individual sperm will ever form a child. A sperm is only part of the ingredients necessary to make a baby. However, fetus IS going to become a baby, unless things go drastically wrong. Abortion may not be killing a child, but it is killing something that otherwise would have become a child. Certainly it may cause a bad life for the child and its mother, but shouldnt you give that child the chance to make what it will of its own life?
Now I'm not saying people who favor abortion are evil- I recognize the merits of the pro-choice argument, and that pro-choice people act according to how they best are able to moralize a difficult moral decision- but the act of abortion is evil in my book. However, I am not god. I wont pass moral judgemets on others, as these are choices we each have to make on the basis of our own rationale and our own consciences. So while stand against abortion, I will make no fuss about it, and I will oppose any anti-abortion legislation. I will not stand for our government to try to force their own interpretation of a difficult moral dilemma on everyone else.

Andy_J · Post by **Andy_J** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 5:41 pm

I just woke up and don't feel like ranting on about this (I normally wouldn't anyway), so I'll just sum up my beliefs:

Abortion: BAD!
Death penalty: almost as bad!
Bush: dumb as a doornail.
Clinton: sleeps around but at least we had more money then.
Kerry: lesser of two evils. MUCH lesser.
Iraq: we never had a reason to go there, now we need to get the fuck out. Yesterday.
US citizen stereotype: sad but true for a lot of the population.
Canada: Blame Canada! (just kidding. I've been there on a trip and it was nice.)
France: No comment (seriously, I have no idea what to think. TV is just a load of crap and well I haven't been there.)

That good enough?

Madskillz · Post by **Madskillz** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 5:52 pm

Wow..man this thread has everything in it. It started out on how Kozak met Job the Gamequitter, than it went to a Calc convention with the community, then to spiders and what Tr1p looked like, than to Bush, and now onto abortion/religion...why, it shows we are an extremely diverse community...other than that, nothing.

Jim e · Post by **Jim e** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 6:10 pm

Wow, how quickly this has turned into a country bash.

the USA has too much pride and thinks that their viewpoint is the correct path to follow

This true, we are very prideful and will stand together and will respect our president even if he's made mistakes. The problem is that we have multiple viewpoints and we all think we are right.

Democracy looks like and seems like a really good type of government; however, it isn't something that works for every single nation because of religious factors and the like.
Just my two cents...

Thats true too, keeping a sepration between church and state is some what hard, But Bush does not seem to be doing very well here.

You're all prisonneers of your beliefs that are actually not yours but your father's, coming from a 20 centuries catholic culture.

I don't know if there is anything in that statement that is correct in any way. It was one thing to start to critize political views, or current events, but it is entirely another thing to critize beliefs with no basis for your judgements, but a stereotype of conservatives.
First off, if you want to now about my beliefs, I chose not to pick a single donamination of protestant. My father abandoned Catholic beliefs becuase he didn't think the way the worshipping was correct.
Second, I can't possibly imagine a person that would allow themselves to be a prisinor of their beliefs. My country is founded on the OPPISITE of that. And I'm proud of that.

You might not know it because of your crappy corrupted TV channels, who made all of you think was on Iraq was fair. You're blinded, guys.

You seem to have a very stereotypical viewpoint US citizens. And as of so far I haven't seen anything correct or make any statement that was an inference. I don't how you live or what gives this right to judge a nation as whole, But please stop stereotyping US citizens. We all have different beliefs, most only see the most polar exteremes of them though. I haven't said anything that infers on the French way.

So while stand against abortion, I will make no fuss about it, and I will oppose any anti-abortion legislation. I will not stand for our government to try to force their own interpretation of a difficult moral dilemma on everyone else.

I agree, though I alittle more towards the middle when it comes to aboration.

Ahh.. Andy is a genius.

Abortion: Bad after the first oh say week or 2
Death penalty: EYE for an EYE
Bush: DUMBASS
Clinton: Poor Moral values, but a good Prez
Kerry: Not enuf there to vote him
Iraq: COME HOME!!!!
US citizen stereotype: Not Cool
Canada: Is it really that clean?

France: Accrooding to US TV, all french wear berets, and BW striped shirts. So No comment, I have no idea how the french live.

Edit: i just correct mispelling in the canada thing.

lloydkirk1989 · Post by **lloydkirk1989** » Sun 20 Mar, 2005 7:02 pm

That's true, but please, please, let me laugh.
We have sold weapons, that's true, and that was horrible.
But please tell me who armed Iran, who armed Iraq, who set up Pinochet, who helped Israel to allow them making war to Palestine, tell me please.
And please also tell me why US made a war in Iraq, why ? Do NOT tell me it's because Saddam was a horrible dictator, because US did help such dictators.
We all know (except US citizens, unfortunately) that the reason is money.
You might not know it because of your crappy corrupted TV channels, who made all of you think was on Iraq was fair. You're blinded, guys.

The evil countries we armed, such as Iran, Iraq,etc...were armed for the great purpose of destroying other evil political factions. For example, in 1960's we supplied Sadam against Iran, because they were having a radical Islamic revolution. As far as Israel, Im glad that we have been their allies. Those poor people have the right to defend themselves against those stupid,crazy,murderous sons of Allah who don't even belong there. The US has been very good about taking out evil dictators...Gaudafi
On the contrary, the French have supported islamic radicals. They're always letting Morocan Shish-cabobs come into france everyday.