gCn - global CALCnet2
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- KermMartian
- Calc Wizard
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Kerm, a few questions...
I'm not in the mood to sign up for your forum, and it permits anonymous posting, so I'm asking them here.
Why do I see Java code and C++ code in your FTP (http://cemetech.net/gCn/) both implementing the host/client software? And what's all this talk about headers? Just open a connection to the server, and output the headers yourself if you can't get a library to do it for you Besides, I wouldn't use headers to send information if I were you. I'd just send my request to the PHP script with GET or POST, and return the answer by echo'ing it to the clients. That would be a crappy setup, but the best you can do with a server that's not your own I guess...
Now I think of it, PHP also has some functions to setup a TCP connection:
http://nl3.php.net/manual/en/ref.sockets.php
Still, I'd find some people with proper servers to host this for you, so you can just run some (C) crontab. C++ is good for the host/client, Java = evil...
And I stick to my statements that you're not going to pull this off on the calc level, and that this will be too slow for games
I'm not in the mood to sign up for your forum, and it permits anonymous posting, so I'm asking them here.
Why do I see Java code and C++ code in your FTP (http://cemetech.net/gCn/) both implementing the host/client software? And what's all this talk about headers? Just open a connection to the server, and output the headers yourself if you can't get a library to do it for you Besides, I wouldn't use headers to send information if I were you. I'd just send my request to the PHP script with GET or POST, and return the answer by echo'ing it to the clients. That would be a crappy setup, but the best you can do with a server that's not your own I guess...
Now I think of it, PHP also has some functions to setup a TCP connection:
http://nl3.php.net/manual/en/ref.sockets.php
Still, I'd find some people with proper servers to host this for you, so you can just run some (C) crontab. C++ is good for the host/client, Java = evil...
And I stick to my statements that you're not going to pull this off on the calc level, and that this will be too slow for games
http://clap.timendus.com/ - The Calculator Link Alternative Protocol
http://api.timendus.com/ - Make your life easier, leave the coding to the API
http://vera.timendus.com/ - The calc lover's OS
http://api.timendus.com/ - Make your life easier, leave the coding to the API
http://vera.timendus.com/ - The calc lover's OS
Don't think that'll be neccessary. He'll swing by sooner or later, and I'd rather have the discussion here than on his sluggish forum.
http://clap.timendus.com/ - The Calculator Link Alternative Protocol
http://api.timendus.com/ - Make your life easier, leave the coding to the API
http://vera.timendus.com/ - The calc lover's OS
http://api.timendus.com/ - Make your life easier, leave the coding to the API
http://vera.timendus.com/ - The calc lover's OS
Why couldn't it work real time? Even if there is a slight delay, it wouldn't make all that much difference for a lot of games. All this has to do is send the tiny calc output, and recieve the input. The things it is sending and recieving are so small that it should be able to work pretty quickly.
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- KermMartian
- Calc Wizard
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- Joined: Tue 05 Jul, 2005 11:28 pm
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These are some very good points, but points I have addressed since I last posted here nonetheless.Timendus wrote:Kerm, a few questions...
I'm not in the mood to sign up for your forum, and it permits anonymous posting, so I'm asking them here.
Why do I see Java code and C++ code in your FTP (http://cemetech.net/gCn/) both implementing the host/client software? And what's all this talk about headers? Just open a connection to the server, and output the headers yourself if you can't get a library to do it for you Besides, I wouldn't use headers to send information if I were you. I'd just send my request to the PHP script with GET or POST, and return the answer by echo'ing it to the clients. That would be a crappy setup, but the best you can do with a server that's not your own I guess...
Now I think of it, PHP also has some functions to setup a TCP connection:
http://nl3.php.net/manual/en/ref.sockets.php
Still, I'd find some people with proper servers to host this for you, so you can just run some (C) crontab. C++ is good for the host/client, Java = evil...
And I stick to my statements that you're not going to pull this off on the calc level, and that this will be too slow for games
1. gCn is the dev directory; gcn is the frontend dir
2. you see c++ because I decided to go ixnay on Java and try C++ instead for reasons such as using tilp. Java didn't seem like a good option in the long run
3. Sending stuff via headers IS how you post - the POST data is sent in the headers.
4. I'm doing a bit of rewriting of the backend; Kllrnohj and I chatted and decided to modify the underlying schema a bit. Now instead of doing all communications tasks, each current running host can ALSO act as a server; it's a bit more complex than that, but that's the basic idea.
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- Calc Wizard
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Cool, so this going to be like X-box live for calcs. Not to offend kerm, but even if you could get this to work, which it won't, it would be very limited in what it could do. So I don't realy get the point, but if you're doing this for personal satisfaction or to get featured on engadget, no one is stopping you.
Don't worry, I (obviously) read your forum. Nothing escapes my attentionKermMartian wrote:These are some very good points, but points I have addressed since I last posted here nonetheless.
I know, I said "in your FTP". The dev nonsense is more interesting than the frontend, and besides http://www.cemetech.net/gcn / http://gcn.cemetech.net/ gives a 404.1. gCn is the dev directory; gcn is the frontend dir
Of course not. Java can't interface with the hardware, it requires your users to install the JVM, and it's awfully slow. A scriptkiddie could have told you that.2. you see c++ because I decided to go ixnay on Java and try C++ instead for reasons such as using tilp. Java didn't seem like a good option in the long run
Ah, stupid me Still, there's nothing difficult about opening up a direct connection and manually sending out the headers.3. Sending stuff via headers IS how you post - the POST data is sent in the headers.
You'll still need a central server to host the directory of servers. You're not going to pull this off with PHP Kerm You'll need all the speed you can get to compensate for the propagation delays, and using VM's and scripting languages isn't helping in that sense. Besides, no offense, but your server is one of the slowest I've ever seen. It takes ages to load even the smallest files.4. I'm doing a bit of rewriting of the backend; Kllrnohj and I chatted and decided to modify the underlying schema a bit. Now instead of doing all communications tasks, each current running host can ALSO act as a server; it's a bit more complex than that, but that's the basic idea.
If your serious with this, my advice is to write a simple C program (less is more ) for the backend and give that to some people with high end servers/connections. Let the client (C++ is alright) attempt to connect to those servers in a preset order, that'll keep the network as centralized as possible. That's the easy part. Once you've got that up and running you have to interface between the C++ client and a calculator (you can forget about connecting more than one calc to a client) in such a way that it's actually useful. So you'll need to write a browser, an IM client, mods for every game you want to be able to play over the Internet...
All of that is doable, but it's a LOT of work, it's going to be SLOW, and hardly anyone is going to use it because it's freaking pointless when you're sitting behind a computer
Anyway, it's an ambitious project, and I'm curious to see how far you'll get with it.
Edit@CompWiz:
I was typing a very long reply about the structure of the Internet and all the neccessary steps to get something from your PC to mine, and then I accidentally pressed Ctrl+W instead of Ctrl+T. You'll have guessed that I use Firefox...
Anyway the gist of it is that the size of a packet doesn't matter...
http://clap.timendus.com/ - The Calculator Link Alternative Protocol
http://api.timendus.com/ - Make your life easier, leave the coding to the API
http://vera.timendus.com/ - The calc lover's OS
http://api.timendus.com/ - Make your life easier, leave the coding to the API
http://vera.timendus.com/ - The calc lover's OS
- KermMartian
- Calc Wizard
- Posts: 549
- Joined: Tue 05 Jul, 2005 11:28 pm
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Well, the CALCnet2 part of it ( the Cn in gCn) is supposed to allow up to 253 calcs to connect together at once, but if not, it would still be cool. We shall see.Timendus wrote:Thanks for the heads-up. Edit: I have no problems with it... Could it have something to do with non-logged-in users...?KermMartian wrote:I know, I said "in your FTP". The dev nonsense is more interesting than the frontend, and besides http://www.cemetech.net/gcn / http://gcn.cemetech.net/ gives a 404.1. gCn is the dev directory; gcn is the frontend dirThat's what I thought, but elfprince and Kllrnohj seemed to be having trouble figuring out how...Timendus wrote:Ah, stupid me Still, there's nothing difficult about opening up a direct connection and manually sending out the headers.3. Sending stuff via headers IS how you post - the POST data is sent in the headers.Timendus wrote:You'll still need a central server to host the directory of servers. You're not going to pull this off with PHP Kerm You'll need all the speed you can get to compensate for the propagation delays, and using VM's and scripting languages isn't helping in that sense. Besides, no offense, but your server is one of the slowest I've ever seen. It takes ages to load even the smallest files.4. I'm doing a bit of rewriting of the backend; Kllrnohj and I chatted and decided to modify the underlying schema a bit. Now instead of doing all communications tasks, each current running host can ALSO act as a server; it's a bit more complex than that, but that's the basic idea.
If your serious with this, my advice is to write a simple C program (less is more ) for the backend and give that to some people with high end servers/connections. Let the client (C++ is alright) attempt to connect to those servers in a preset order, that'll keep the network as centralized as possible. That's the easy part. Once you've got that up and running you have to interface between the C++ client and a calculator (you can forget about connecting more than one calc to a client) in such a way that it's actually useful. So you'll need to write a browser, an IM client, mods for every game you want to be able to play over the Internet...
All of that is doable, but it's a LOT of work, it's going to be SLOW, and hardly anyone is going to use it because it's freaking pointless when you're sitting behind a computer
I guess so, it still 404s on me.KermMartian wrote:Edit: I have no problems with it... Could it have something to do with non-logged-in users...?
We shall see indeed (:mrgreen:)Well, the CALCnet2 part of it ( the Cn in gCn) is supposed to allow up to 253 calcs to connect together at once, but if not, it would still be cool. We shall see.
http://clap.timendus.com/ - The Calculator Link Alternative Protocol
http://api.timendus.com/ - Make your life easier, leave the coding to the API
http://vera.timendus.com/ - The calc lover's OS
http://api.timendus.com/ - Make your life easier, leave the coding to the API
http://vera.timendus.com/ - The calc lover's OS
- KermMartian
- Calc Wizard
- Posts: 549
- Joined: Tue 05 Jul, 2005 11:28 pm
- Contact:
Well, Iunderstand your skepticism, and I'm getting a bit skeptical myself. The trick is probably gonna be the electronics of the network more than the software...Timendus wrote:I guess so, it still 404s on me.KermMartian wrote:Edit: I have no problems with it... Could it have something to do with non-logged-in users...?We shall see indeed (:mrgreen:)Well, the CALCnet2 part of it ( the Cn in gCn) is supposed to allow up to 253 calcs to connect together at once, but if not, it would still be cool. We shall see.
Some hints :
It is possible in theory, and with very simple hardware. And I think I posted my theory somewhere on this board. But nobody has been able to do it yet. Granted; not many people tried, but still, this is not child's play.
It is possible in theory, and with very simple hardware. And I think I posted my theory somewhere on this board. But nobody has been able to do it yet. Granted; not many people tried, but still, this is not child's play.
http://clap.timendus.com/ - The Calculator Link Alternative Protocol
http://api.timendus.com/ - Make your life easier, leave the coding to the API
http://vera.timendus.com/ - The calc lover's OS
http://api.timendus.com/ - Make your life easier, leave the coding to the API
http://vera.timendus.com/ - The calc lover's OS
- KermMartian
- Calc Wizard
- Posts: 549
- Joined: Tue 05 Jul, 2005 11:28 pm
- Contact:
Searching...
http://joepnet.com/hosted/maxcoderz/php ... networking - Never completed
Ah, you mean this? http://timendus.student.utwente.nl/docs/multi-user.doc
I've read that long ago and actually incorporated some of the general ideas like cascading checks.
http://joepnet.com/hosted/maxcoderz/php ... networking - Never completed
Ah, you mean this? http://timendus.student.utwente.nl/docs/multi-user.doc
I've read that long ago and actually incorporated some of the general ideas like cascading checks.