[Java] Opening CD drive

elfprince13 · Post by **elfprince13** » Wed 20 Dec, 2006 9:51 pm

benryves wrote:Not since Microsoft stopped shipping it. If you're running an old version of Windows, you might well have it, but I find it rather unlikely. No school or work machines I've ever used have had it installed.

In any case, you can download it from here.

M$ stopped shipping with it because they illegally modified the language specification for use in their own runtime....

Post by **benryves** » Thu 21 Dec, 2006 10:59 am

anykey wrote:School computers *never* have any stuff installed. I've found that most people have it installed because certain applications needed it, sometimes even for websites.

I can't think of a single application that requires Java beyond Eclipse. Pretty much the same goes for the .NET framework - most .NET apps I run have been written by Microsoft themselves.

If only windows shipped with stuff like that...too bad it's bloated with other crap! Unix distros manage to include Java, Python, and many other runtime environments and still aren't as bloated.

Sun won't let them, and people's definition of "bloated" differ wildly - what do you mean by "bloated" in this instance?

King Harold · Post by **King Harold** » Thu 21 Dec, 2006 12:26 pm

benryves wrote:Sun won't let them, ..

Isn't there something called "microsoft java"? I use it instead of Sun java, its faster.

Microsoft wrote:Recognizing the need to provide a smooth transition for current users of the MicrosoftÃ‚Â® Java Virtual Machine (MSJVM), Sun Microsystems and Microsoft have agreed to extend Microsoft's license to use Sun's Java source code and compatibility test suites.

why would they?

anyway, microsoft doesn't need Sun to allow them to ship anything of them since they can ship their own thingy

Post by **benryves** » Thu 21 Dec, 2006 12:30 pm

Microsoft have a language called J which is Java-like (which is now J# for .NET). The MSJVM could run J++/normal Java apps well when I used it, but was horribly out of date (albeit significantly faster than the official Sun one at the time).

I have no idea how good compatibility between Sun's Java and J# is - all I do know is that J# is used quite often to decode zip archive in .NET apps, as a .jar file is just a zip archive.

anykey · Post by **anykey** » Thu 21 Dec, 2006 3:56 pm

When I say "bloated", I'm referring to the actual amount of disk space the OS takes up.

elfprince13 · Post by **elfprince13** » Thu 21 Dec, 2006 4:58 pm

both the Sun JVM and M$ are somewhat bloated compared to languages like python.....

also, as I said earlier M$ has been forced to stop distributing their JView virtual machince because they attempted to alter the java language specifications and some of the standard libraries for their VM in another underhanded attempt to force people to use Windows. it ended up backfiring when they got the asses handed to them on a platter in court by Sun. If you have XP prior to SP2 you can still run java programs using jview.

[edit]

alright, I just checked on the details, M$ did not alter the language specification, however they did alter several key features (RMI, JNI) and breached the licensing terms from sun. they ended up paying $20 million to Sun, having to remove it from distribution and attempted to cover it up, delete it from all copies of XP that they could get their hands on.