Debate thread (revived)

[thecheat]

sorry, I know, I didn't mean to stray the topic. I'm NOT GOING BACK TO the evolution god debate, if that makes it better. sorry, didn't mean to stray the topic.

[Timendus]

Indeed, and besides, perhaps he wants it that way, so why would that make him stupid?

1. the moment the sperm cell reaches the egg then that's life. you shouldnt give someone permission to kill because the egg hasn't developed. its still alive. its living, its got a heartbeat, its got a brain.

No it doesn't. When the sperm reaches the egg there's two cells merging to one. So basically you have one cell there. No heart, no heartbeat, and certainly no brain. Both of those come after several months, and the heart doesn't start beating untill it's birth if I'm not mistaken.

solution: stay away from bad people, be safe, and put the baby up for adoption.

How is that a solution? You'd still have to give birth after a rape, which option you cannot 100% exclude. Have you ever given birth? Neither have I, but from what I've heard it's one of the least pleasant experiences imaginable, certainly when you're young and it's your first child...

[lloydkirk1989]

So you plan to never have sex unless you want to have a child?

I thinks he's supporting abstinence outside of marriage. 96% of abortions occur in a relationship outside marriage. If people aren't ready to make a long term commitment, or prepared to have children then they probably should remain abstinent.

[dysfunction]

As for gay marriage; no one is forcing Christian churches to marry gays. You seem to think marriage is a Christian invention. If marriage was only a Christian tradition, then non-Christian straight couples should get the same civil unions as gays. How can you say that gays are not entitled to the same secular rights as straights? You can't outlaw something because Christianity it is immoral under the rules of one religion, because we have a separation of secular and religious authority in this country. Furthermore, Christians themselves are by no means united in condemning gay marriage. All gays and their supporters are asking for is secular marriage. There are plenty of churches which would be happy to give them a religious ceremony as well.

[lecks]

let me clear some things up

Indeed, and besides, perhaps he wants it that way, so why would that make him stupid?

1. the moment the sperm cell reaches the egg then that's life. you shouldnt give someone permission to kill because the egg hasn't developed. its still alive. its living, its got a heartbeat, its got a brain.

No it doesn't. When the sperm reaches the egg there's two cells merging to one. So basically you have one cell there. No heart, no heartbeat, and certainly no brain. Both of those come after several months, and the heart doesn't start beating untill it's birth if I'm not mistaken.
i may have exaggerated it, but in my catholic church, we had a talk about abortion and they said life is considered when the sperm cell reaches the egg. i added heartbeat and all that, i wasnt thinking, but what i meant was about the "first moment of life"

solution: stay away from bad people, be safe (be abstinent, use protection), and put the baby up for adoption.

How is that a solution? You'd still have to give birth after a rape, which option you cannot 100% exclude. Have you ever given birth? Neither have I, but from what I've heard it's one of the least pleasant experiences imaginable, certainly when you're young and it's your first child...

i already know you cant prevent it once it happens, so the solution would be to have never had a relationship(friend) with that person if she knew he was bad news. also i alst meant that teens just go and want to have sex and dont care about the consequences. so they have to suffer the consequences. the baby didnt want to be *robbed* of its life. maybe that baby would one day discover something or invent something or just change the way we live? i dont think its right to just kill the baby, and abortion is painful, can even kill the mother, and it costs more than just going through with a pregnancy

[Timendus]

How is that a solution? You'd still have to give birth after a rape, which option you cannot 100% exclude. Have you ever given birth? Neither have I, but from what I've heard it's one of the least pleasant experiences imaginable, certainly when you're young and it's your first child...

i already know you cant prevent it once it happens, so the solution would be to have never had a relationship(friend) with that person if she knew he was bad news. also i alst meant that teens just go and want to have sex and dont care about the consequences. so they have to suffer the consequences. the baby didnt want to be *robbed* of its life. maybe that baby would one day discover something or invent something or just change the way we live? i dont think its right to just kill the baby, and abortion is painful, can even kill the mother, and it costs more than just going through with a pregnancy

You'd still have to give birth after a rape, which option you cannot 100% exclude.

So you plan to never have sex unless you want to have a child?

I thinks he's supporting abstinence outside of marriage. 96% of abortions occur in a relationship outside marriage. If people aren't ready to make a long term commitment, or prepared to have children then they probably should remain abstinent.

You've got a point. But when people enter relationships, it's usually meant to last forever You cannot tell if you will be together forever or not, it's always a risk that you have to take. Not to be offensive, but I guess most of you never had a serious relationship, judging by your comments...

[Arcane WIzard]

the baby didnt want to be *robbed* of its life.

On the other hand, who are we to give it life? Does it want to live?

[Homestar]

Oh, isn't this grand. Now from under the carpets, floormats, and corners everyone starts saying their a Christian, giving all thier sob stories about how I've offended them. You know it takes a lot more than just saying your a Christian to make you one. Do you really think I'm that dumb? I have a memory longer than 1 second.

-------another-time----------

Yes, the comic I posted demonstrates exactly what God seems to be, a comfort object. Look, a lot of this sounds like believing in Santa. Crazy stories involving impossible feats like stopping time, then you realize none of it is true. Of course, we know CompWiz still believes in Santa Claus .

-------another-time----------

Without a god there are no morals.

Look, a lot of this sounds like believing in Santa. Crazy stories involving impossible feats like stopping time, then you realize none of it is true. Of course, we know CompWiz still believes in Santa Claus

Are you kidding? Even the most godless people can have morals. I believe Timendus has said that even though he doesn't believe in god, he has morals. It comes from what YOU believe is right or wrong. I think of what things would be like if they were happening to me, and decide if that is moral. And don't say that that is "god's law", it is a simple and instinctive human law.

A Christian wouldn't believe this.
----------------------

Read the part of the Bible that gives you the idea that homosexuals are immoral and notice that in the same book, it says you can't wear blended fabric. Look at your shirt, your pants, they are probably blended fabric. Your socks certainly are. And your underwear. You can't pick and choose.

Sure I'll read it, I'll also post it as well. I couldn't find the "blended fabric" deal, I'll let you find that, but I can guarentee it's in the Old Testament (if it exists).

EDIT: 1 Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality" [goes on in following verses about other sins and forgiveness]

Romans 1 26-27: [previous to this quote, talks about people disregarding God, and tried to dishonor him]"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

I never said you were going to hell, and I never meant that you were going either. I was mainly joking, but it is true that unbelievers won't go to heaven, unbelievers that act just like you do/are. I'm amazed how you took offence at this as you and timendus have come up with some pretty llittle words for me.

[lloydkirk1989]

Not to be offensive, but I guess most of you never had a serious relationship, judging by your comments...

Serious relationships are meant for marriage. I've had a girlfriend for about 3 years, but it doesn't go beyond hugs and kisses.

On the other hand, who are we to give it life? Does it want to live?

Is that a rhetorical question? I've never heard of a suicidal baby.

[lecks]

Not to be offensive, but I guess most of you never had a serious relationship, judging by your comments...

Serious relationships are meant for marriage. I've had a girlfriend for about 3 years, but it doesn't go beyond hugs and kisses.

On the other hand, who are we to give it life? Does it want to live?

Is that a rhetorical question? I've never heard of a suicidal baby.

i agree with everything lloyd just said. also, if (somehow) the baby doesn't want to live, we all gotta die one day anyway so let it live. let it hate life. let it commit suicide. dont kill it cause if you kill it then it doesnt have the choice of life but if you let it live it still has the choice of death.

hilight if you're christian or whatever:

---
if you're christian and you commit suicide, you commit a sin because we cannot harm our soul's vessel that god gave to us. if we die with sins we go to hell and since we never lived to repent those sins, then we're going six feet under.
---


so if you're christian, dont commit suicice. if you hate life, go to church and talk to the priest and your day will come.

i believe there is no way we can come to the same views because we all have different point of views of life and different beliefs.
so this can continue forever because i sorta just contradicted myself when i said let it commit suicice then later i said dont commit suicice.

[threefingeredguy]

Read the part of the Bible that gives you the idea that homosexuals are immoral and notice that in the same book, it says you can't wear blended fabric. Look at your shirt, your pants, they are probably blended fabric. Your socks certainly are. And your underwear. You can't pick and choose.

Sure I'll read it, I'll also post it as well. I couldn't find the "blended fabric" deal, I'll let you find that, but I can guarentee it's in the Old Testament (if it exists).

EDIT: 1 Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality" [goes on in following verses about other sins and forgiveness]

Romans 1 26-27: [previous to this quote, talks about people disregarding God, and tried to dishonor him]"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

There's more to the bible than the new testament. It's in one of the early books, exodus or dueteronomy.

And what makes you think I am not Christian? Because I am making smart, educated desicions instead of those based on superstition. If God didn't like the way I acted he'd send a sign. So far so good: going to college, I get to program all I want, I have lots of friends, my parents provide for me well... Unless I'm a reverse Job, I think I'm ok.

[CoBB]

EDIT: 1 Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality" [goes on in following verses about other sins and forgiveness]

Hasn't that occurred to you that this is an English translation, and not even the only one? And a translator can write anything. Just for the record, the very term 'homosexuality' originates from the 19th century, so you won't find it in the Bible. Just google for 'arsenokoitai' and see for yourself that things are not as simple as you want them to be. Anyway, the same word appears in 1 Timothy 1:10, and often it is translated differently within one translation. The original word literally means 'man lying (not sleeping) with another man'.

Here's the same excerpt from the standard Hungarian Bible:

6,9 Avagy nem tudjátok-é, hogy igazságtalanok nem örökölhetik Istennek országát? Ne tévelyegjetek; se paráznák, se bálványimádók, se házasságtörők, se pulyák, se férfiszeplősítők

This means 'deflowerer of males'. Other translations are 'férfifertőző', 'fajtalan', 'kicsapongó' and some others. These mean 'male contamination', pedophilia and plain promiscuity. No consensus here either.

[Timendus]

Oh, isn't this grand. Now from under the carpets, floormats, and corners everyone starts saying their a Christian, giving all thier sob stories about how I've offended them. You know it takes a lot more than just saying your a Christian to make you one. Do you really think I'm that dumb?

If you go to a Christian church, and are recognized there as a Christian, then you are a Christian... In fact, if you believe in Christian values and beliefs, and try to uphold them, you may call yourself a Christian. It's a really broad term, and I really don't understand how you would be a Christian, and Rezek or 3fg couldn't be, just because you say so...

I think the word for that is "arrogance"...

There's more to the bible than the new testament. It's in one of the early books, exodus or dueteronomy.

You mean Leviticus

[CompWiz]

To be a Christian, you need to accepted Jesus as your Lord so that you can be "born again." Just because you walk into a church once a week doesn't mean anything.

@Timendus: The heart starts beating long before the baby is born. Look it up.

I definitely agree with abstinence until marriage. It would solve A LOT of problems. And if someone doesn't want a baby and they're pregnant, they can just put it up for adoption. A lot of people want a baby and can't have one.

[Arcane WIzard]

Not to be offensive, but I guess most of you never had a serious relationship, judging by your comments...

Serious relationships are meant for marriage. I've had a girlfriend for about 3 years, but it doesn't go beyond hugs and kisses.

Marriage is not required in a relationship to make it serious.

On the other hand, who are we to give it life? Does it want to live?

Is that a rhetorical question? I've never heard of a suicidal baby.

i agree with everything lloyd just said. also, if (somehow) the baby doesn't want to live, we all gotta die one day anyway so let it live. let it hate life. let it commit suicide. dont kill it cause if you kill it then it doesnt have the choice of life but if you let it live it still has the choice of death.

Maybe if it's dead it still has the choice to live. If you don't think it's capable of not wanting to life, how can you think it's capable of not wanting to die? It doesn't know what life or death is, it's selfish to assume they do and automatically choose for life.

And if someone doesn't want a baby and they're pregnant, they can just put it up for adoption.

Because being pregnant 9 months, giving birth, and then giving the child away is so easy.