Re: Kerm Bashing

Timendus · Post by **Timendus** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 12:34 am

Yes, I agree. Kevin said some very good things @UTI:

Kevin wrote:err I do think that he shouldnt release calcnet if he doesn finish it though, thats what ppl hate about him. Also I think he should merge all his screensavers together as well as some of his math programs because I tried to search for one of his programs in his profile and I gave up due to the fact he has way too many programs in his profile. Also maybe he should update his old non working schematics plans to say that he stopped working on this and that if someone want to finish it email him at email@address.com or some thing like that. Now the thing is that people download them thinking it will work because they think its finished. I think that would help

Try to keep things organized, well commented (in the source) and preferably functional. Otherwise nobody will benefit from your work, and you could just as well not have uploaded it.

KermMartian · Post by **KermMartian** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 12:52 am

Good good, these are excellent suggestions.

currahee · Post by **currahee** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 12:55 am

First email

Hello

Yeah I written this petition. I got informed yesterday that Arcane Wizard posted this on MaxCoderz forums and I alerady knew it would get locked. This was not a reason why I left MaxCoderz in the first place back in July 12th 2005 but what is happening with Kerm is a reason why I am officially not coming back on MaxCoderz. At revsoft and UnitedTI it never got locked. Here is my whole point on this:

The "bashing" word might be a too strong word, but unfortunately I couldnt find another less strong equivalent in my english vocabulary, I wouldnt not use the word flaming either, but anyway there is disrespect for kerm on MC forums and I'm sure there is on other forums but on other forums they chosen to ignore Kerm and his projects instead, which I think that the MC members involved should do the same.

Apparently Arcane Wizard from UTI posted the petition on MC and I saw it and I knew in advance that the thread would be locked by staff. The worst thing is that they even said there was no Kerm bashing at all in the link I provided. I agree that "bashing" might be a too strong word and practically every posts in the GCN Calcnet2 thread were constructive but I disagree that there is no disrespect for him on the forums and that we are overreacting and when providing criticism people should be nicer. I think they said that so they can continue picking up on him as much as they wish. I know he's not wanted at MC and that a few people here want him to leave the forums. When I saw this I was tempted to post the petition on Omnimaga front page and the community article section of the website but I might wait and see what happen or maybe not even post it or i might just put it in my sig on every forums I visit regulary if admins wont mind.

The petition will continue saying "some people at MC" because I found no other place where he got lack of respect recently and he wont post at CG anymore.

Personally I like kerm because hes nice with people. Back when I signed up on his forum in 2004 he practically had none playable or decent programs (imho), but after posting for a while I realised he was a nice person to talk with, I just didnt cared at all about his program on his forum. Now I think he improved a lot in his skills, he might only need to test his programs more before releasing them and find more realistic projects, like Source Coder.

Now if people want to bash him or want to say something to him that might be a bit mean I think it would be better to use the PM system on the forums instead of humiliating him in public.

Second email

I find it pretty sad that this happens, because I have been active member of MC for 2 years, I wish MaxCoderz would be like it was before, minus bashing, I remember when people didn't spent that much time debating on various topics which gets out of hand. I also noticed lloydkirk immaturity, hes nice with me on AIM but he doesnt go on aim anymore and mostly go on MaxCoderz, not on other forums. He seems to base his opinions with some other people opinions instead of having his own sometimes. Also I noticed lot of immature posts over the last year on their forums from many new comers. I think they should do something about it and try to be less tolerant about bashing and people being mean with others. I know I have the bad habit of replying to every new posts on forums (thats how I got 1697 posts in less than 6 months on MC forums and 2500 in 7 months on Omnimaga) but I try to keep a certain meaning in my posts most of the time and no flames. Anyway they should do something otherwise maybe some other peoples will leave as well. There is also UTI, Revsoft and my forums that have some activity as well and people might go on one of those instead or leave the community because they think its like that everywhere

Anyway I hope you dont leave the community anytime soon. Did you worked on calc stuff recently?

That's all from Kevin, btw.

KermMartian · Post by **KermMartian** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 1:04 am

Yeah, he seems pretty upset...

I'm working on adding the new descriptions to my TICI 1.0 stuff.

necro · Post by **necro** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 3:44 am

where did this thread come from ?

...little harsh there vincent. Ok, more than a little. Kevin is a nice guy who gets a bit over worked sometimes, but thats no reason to rip him as opposed to being civil about it. And there isn't any reason to flame kerm either. Flame me. I like being flamed, as it gives me a legitimate reason to flame back which is fun like fire crackers...

yeah...so, golden rule for you to vincent

Post by **BetaSword** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 6:27 am

You see, there's a reason I keep myself out of the politics of all this stuff. It's too confusing and I can't keep track of it

But anyways... Eh, I don't see why everyone's bashing everyone else. I don't even know Kerm. All I know about him is that he's released more things than most groups combined, and is obviously some sort of robot (I'm kidding here). Sure, releasing buggy stuff isn't always a good thing to do, but hell, look at most computer games released nowadays. How many of them require several patches to bring them up to a more usable level? Pretty much all of them.

Of course, there's also the possibility that, not having actually looked into any of this myself, I could very well be just saying things that really make no sense. But hey, that's alright.

Let's all just be happy and get along

I'm probably not helping anything here, but too late

CoBB · Post by **CoBB** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 6:32 am

necro wrote:Kevin is a nice guy who gets a bit over worked sometimes, but thats no reason to rip him as opposed to being civil about it.

Timendus is an even nicer guy, I'm quite sure contacting him would have been more fruitful than starting a petition... Not that he had said anything wrong in the first place. To me this petition thing looks much more offensive than any non-constructive criticism Tim posted before, which, frankly, is negligible in proportion to his constructive posts.

KermMartian · Post by **KermMartian** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 2:53 pm

Oh, definitely, I'm sure they're both great guys. As far as the examples Kevin used, I don't know if I would have cited those. I probably would have used some of the other, older threads here.

Timendus · Post by **Timendus** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 3:50 pm

BetaSword wrote:You see, there's a reason I keep myself out of the politics of all this stuff. It's too confusing and I can't keep track of it

I try to stay away from the politics too... It finally seems to have found me though

Thanks CoBB, but let's not make this into a Timendus vs. Kevin debate, because I don't think that will be helpful. Kevin got annoyed (probably not specifically by those posts, but in the course of a few months), he thought he should do something, and he (probably unintentionally) started a riot. I don't blame him for it, but I suppose he should have handled this differently, and it is sad to see that this petition landed in such fertile ground. Some people seem to enjoy bashing Maxcoderz for whatever reason.

CoBB · Post by **CoBB** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 4:37 pm

Timendus wrote:Thanks CoBB, but let's not make this into a Timendus vs. Kevin debate, because I don't think that will be helpful.

I'm secretly wishing for some blood here. Don't forget I'm evil, I think that was well established by the PTI prank, which, incidentally, worked wonderfully with you.

currahee · Post by **currahee** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 5:02 pm

Blood? Can I join?

All I can say about this is: enough already!
For the people who say they are against bashing, I wonder if they've ever bashed anyone in their entire lives. I also wonder if I said Hays sucks @$$ right now, how many people would defend Hays?
Yes, Hays and Kerm are not comparable, but it's still bashing isn't it?

Anyway, it's not like I hate Kerm so don't get the wrong idea. I'm saying some people are taking this way too seriously. With my opinions on Kevin, he's a nice person. His deal with leaving the community (I don't know, I don't think he really left) I can understand. However spreading this topic like wildfire and including the petition blew this little ordeal into epic proportions- while in the process filling some people's minds with the wrong idea. I criticize Kerm on his programming. That's way different than calling him a *** or ***** or ************. But see, that's the problem. I feel that people are feeling when I say that Kerm should move on with C++ rather than TI basic/assembly, people are thinking it's a verbal attack on him. Like i'm calling him a *** or ***** or ************.
Again, my reason for criticising Kerm and saying that he should move onto C++ or a computer level language is that he creates programs that are nice to look at, but they're not really useful for anything. Am I wrong? What would be more useful: A word processor for the calculator or a word processor for the computer?
Think i'm alone with this opinion? This is what Kevin also said:

sound like a good deal for me. Actually I also believe that he could put his skills into more useful projects, like he did with SourceCoder and maybe start more realistic projects, I mean no 3D engine, no wifi calc stuff, which will probably be used by two or three people. I hope people will be nicer with him in the future.

Yes, yes there is nothing that says he can't make it or gCn. It's an I feel opinion not a you're going to have to... order.

Timendus · Post by **Timendus** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 7:00 pm

CoBB wrote:I'm secretly wishing for some blood here. Don't forget I'm evil, I think that was well established by the PTI prank, which, incidentally, worked wonderfully with you.

Oh, yes... that was NOT funny

P

currahee wrote:I also wonder if I said Hays sucks @$$ right now, how many people would defend Hays?
Yes, Hays and Kerm are not comparable, but it's still bashing isn't it?

Very good point.

CompWiz · Post by **CompWiz** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 7:03 pm

CoBB wrote:Not that he had said anything wrong in the first place.

Yes, actually in the gcn topic Timendus did bash kerm. Later on he admitted that he did and apologized.

currahee · Post by **currahee** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 7:05 pm

With that being said I will now shut up.
And i'm evil too

at least on Battle.net ....

Timendus · Post by **Timendus** » Tue 13 Dec, 2005 7:11 pm

CompWiz wrote:actually in the gcn topic Timendus did bash kerm. Later on he admitted that he did and apologized.

To be accurate, I never admitted to be "bashing"

I admitted that I wasn't adding anything in that post, and promised to apologize in a more general way if Kerm would pull the gCn off.

I have no doubt though that many people would see it as bashing, so I guess you've got a point.