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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 11:51 am 
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I'm still wondering what the best way to do it would be. There's the current way (which relies on docs being arranged to fit the very narrow column) but I'd quite like to try the Visual Studio way - as you type in the editor, that window in the side bar is a quick help, listing the available help topics that match the word you're currently typing. Clicking on one pops up the Document Browser at the right page. (VS 2003 would actually load the help file as a tab with your source files... that felt a bit mucky).

Of course, F1 would automatically open the correct item - or if there are multiple ones that match it, present you with a list of available matches to pick from.


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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 12:09 pm 
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Sounds cool... I was wondering; what would be the best format to supply my Bell documentation in? HTML, PDF, TXT, ODT..? What gives the most flexibility within your document viewer? How would I link routine names in the editor to the right places in the documentation?

Another something; VS has a pull down menu as you type with an auto-complete thingy. Not only does it show object and routine names, but it also shows what the supplied parameters should be. Would it be possible to make a little something like that in Latenite 2 that automatically pops up to inform you about inputs and outputs for routines?

It would also be pretty cool if Latenite could automatically include the right libraries when you use routines from them :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 12:14 pm 
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VS has a pull down menu as you type with an auto-complete thingy
Intellisense :) it's planed afaik

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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 12:45 pm 
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Even old Latenite had autocomplete (press Ctrl+Space, like in VS) but it depended on the help files. Most of that functionality will be handled by Brass in the newer versions, though, as Brass can be used to inspect the current project.

I don't see an easy way of extending this to input/output - without going back to something we discussed a long time ago, Timendus, about VS-style XML documentation within the source file. That could be worth revisiting, no? ;)

The most flexible document format is good old-fashioned HTML. Keywords (for responding to F1), and the tree-structure of the documentation is held within an XML file that is merged with the user's when they import the .docpack file. This sort of functionality isn't yet there (unless you manually edit the library.doclib file that the browser uses). Document Browser is still a long way to go, as I have very, very little time to work on these projects. :(


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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 1:03 pm 
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I remember that discussion, and it's something I wouldn't mind going back to :) Seeing that we're pretty much the only two people releasing "libraries" at the moment (Emerson, API, Clap, Bell), apart from the greyscale packages that aren't actively developed anymore, and that you are working on a "stable" platform to work for (one that doesn't change too much from user to user), the discussion would be a lot simpler :)

Anyway, I'll write the documentation in the form of HTML then. Is there a beta available yet that I can work with?

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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 1:28 pm 
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I'm afraid there is no beta, not until I've ironed out a few things. I'll let you know as soon as there is something approaching usable.


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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 1:30 pm 
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Thanks :)

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PostPosted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 4:34 am 
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So, hows it coming along?

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Dec, 2006 10:24 am 
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No progress. Sorry. I've had precious little time to work on my own projects, and I've spent that on updating my emulator project. :|


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PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec, 2007 2:19 pm 
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Ben, I've had a crazy idea. Not to put you out of business or anything (;)) but why don't you try to write a plugin for Eclipse that handles templates for new projects, assembles with Brass, and can run your application with the emulator of your choice?

Using Eclipse instead of your own IDE could give you the advantage that most of the work has already been done and that many people already know how to work with it. Also, it's OS independant, so us Linux and Mac fanboys can use it too.

If you skip the debugging fancyness for a moment, I don't think it would be all to difficult..?

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PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec, 2007 2:28 pm 
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It's probably a good idea, but unfortunately it would involve Eclipse (and hence Java) so I am - in this instance - out.

There are other extendable, cross-platform IDEs (such as Code::Blocks) that I'd probably look into first, tbh.


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PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec, 2007 3:22 pm 
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You're against using Java, or you don't have experience with Java? It's not that much different once you know C#. Mainly just a different library to work against.

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PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec, 2007 3:27 pm 
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Timendus wrote:
You're against using Java, or you don't have experience with Java? It's not that much different once you know C#. Mainly just a different library to work against.
I have some experience with Java (though more man-hours have gone into J2ME than J2SE). My objection is with the runtimes; under Windows these are buggy as Hell*, so I do not like installing them, and as such cannot run the software.

Edit: I should clarify, before angering Java fans. On every Windows machine I've used to date with the recent Java runtimes installed (XP and Vista) the Java runtimes periodically crash in the background, even when not running a Java application. The automatic updater claims updates are available, but crashes when you try to install them. The applet plugin crashes IE, Opera and Firefox when closing a window or tab. I have no idea what causes this behaviour, but it annoys me somewhat. This is on my work PC (two different machines now), home PC (three different machines) and on the PCs I used at university (to do Java development on, of all things).


Last edited by benryves on Thu 06 Dec, 2007 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec, 2007 5:58 pm 
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i'd hate to see anything in java. don't like eclipse. Even less SunOne.

Though the IDE-integrating might be worth some thinking. Isn't it possible to integrate things into MVS?

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PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec, 2007 6:06 pm 
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kv83 wrote:
Isn't it possible to integrate things into MVS?
Yes, but you need to buy a commercial version of Visual Studio to do so (ie, not the Express Editions - those are fixed at one language only). Besides, Visual Studio limits you to Windows.

I did start work on a text editor and new version of Latenite, but my efforts are concentrated on getting the underlying assembler working. Currently I use Programmer's Notepad to develop Z80 apps.

Good to see you around, kv :)


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