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Last edited by DJ_O on Fri 11 Jan, 2008 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yes, this can absolutely be the case. Though it's hard for us to tell if that's your situation, if you think of it then this is probably the case. There's something you can do about it but first I'll say something about the help and reaction scenarios you described.why is it happening could be because of bad experiences occuring after helping people in the past, regardless of what was the kind of help?
Unless he's being rude later because of your help you have to view these things seperately or you will falsely associate helping with negative feedback. You helped him for the right reason, because you wanted to help him, that's the most important thing.I am saying this because there is people, which I used to be friends with, and we liked each others a lot, helped us and all. Then, one day, the friend was in trouble or needed help or support, so I helped him, because I loved him as friend, and I didn't wanted to see him down and/or in trouble, and i think some other people would have the same reaction if they are reallly friend with the person. Basically, you help the person as much as you can, and sometimes its very hard and overhelming, but you want to abandon your friend. Then he thank you for it. However, a few months later, that person act like a *insert other bad words here* toward you, is rude to you for no valid reasons, and it take everything to be able to not get a bad reply to a simple "hi" or "hello". That's one case i got.
To explain, everybody changes through time. Our moods, our characters, everything. But we stay the same person. This is why you can't see the two events as directly related unless he actually tells you they are and even then that might just be something he blurts out at the moment because he's angry or down about something. But the key is, he's probably down about something else. It sounds like he could use a little some help again.
What you have to do, and this applies to the other cases and relates to your first question, is decide on what to do with this. I think you should decide that you will help every time you want to. Yes you might get hurt later, that's what can happen when you care about something. In order to satisfy your desire to help you have to stop protecting yourself from this a little. You don't have to keep yourself safe from these situations, they're just fellow people reacting to things like you do, and you can take it.
"People always remember the bad, but forget the good."
That knowledge was gained from my parents and it is very true. You can be good for your whole life, but the minute you f*** up then your reputation lies tarnished.
Anyways a typical human will not remember past experiences while they are in a situation and acting like an ass to you Kevin_O. Only in hindsight will most people notice.
Either way the another famous quote also comes into play.
"An eye for an eye will make the world blind."
You will take out your anger from 1 programmer on 100 other programmers in need, possibly dashing their chances of ever starting because no one helped them? Does this seem fair? No it does not seem fair. What needs to happen is to notice that you don't live in a perfect world, and you do live in a very cold one that you can strive to make a little bit warmer. I mean if you even helped one of those programmers then they could turn out to be the next greatest programmer.
I must say that I think your view on not helping other people because of past experiences is very selfish. And this is why I strive to educate people about ASM anytime that they ask or at least try to give a nudge in the right direction when I can't provide sprites.
If Sigma used this thinking and didn't write "Learn TI 83 Plus Assembly in 28 days", then what would have happened to half of the asm programmers out there now?
Knowledge is meant to be shared not withheld so I hope very much Kevin that you change your view on this topic!
That knowledge was gained from my parents and it is very true. You can be good for your whole life, but the minute you f*** up then your reputation lies tarnished.
Anyways a typical human will not remember past experiences while they are in a situation and acting like an ass to you Kevin_O. Only in hindsight will most people notice.
Either way the another famous quote also comes into play.
"An eye for an eye will make the world blind."
You will take out your anger from 1 programmer on 100 other programmers in need, possibly dashing their chances of ever starting because no one helped them? Does this seem fair? No it does not seem fair. What needs to happen is to notice that you don't live in a perfect world, and you do live in a very cold one that you can strive to make a little bit warmer. I mean if you even helped one of those programmers then they could turn out to be the next greatest programmer.
I must say that I think your view on not helping other people because of past experiences is very selfish. And this is why I strive to educate people about ASM anytime that they ask or at least try to give a nudge in the right direction when I can't provide sprites.
If Sigma used this thinking and didn't write "Learn TI 83 Plus Assembly in 28 days", then what would have happened to half of the asm programmers out there now?
Knowledge is meant to be shared not withheld so I hope very much Kevin that you change your view on this topic!
Not helping doesn't leave someone helpless and you can't really simplify the matter to being selfish or not. Wanting to help or wanting to want to help 'makes you' not selfish while helping just so that you get a good reputation 'makes you' selfish. Makes you in other's temporary opinion that is. It can go either way and calling someone selfish isn't going to solve anything. In fact, I could say that in doing so you are actually being selfish yourself because you want the other to confirm to your opinion at that moment rather than do what he wants or what is best for him. You could even make the point that not telling future programmers what to do helps them more than you would otherwise, you can't foresee that anyway.
In any case, that kind of thinking is not going to get us anywhere to a resolution.
Fact of the matter is you either want to help or you don't. You either choose to help or you don't. What others think of that does not change what it is, that's just their opinion at that moment and they could even see it differently moments later, so disregard that and stand up for your own. If you want to want to help then you should choose for that over how others see it or how they might respond. You won't hurt them, but holding yourself back from being true to yourself won't help them either.
The reactions and reasons others give you for your actions form a pattern in your eyes of how you think they want you to be. You don't want to fit into that pattern or you wouldn't have this issue. And when you resolve it you will find that others don't really mean that pattern you made up from their reactions nor want you to conform to it. And I think you'll find they don't want that for the same reason you don't.
In any case, that kind of thinking is not going to get us anywhere to a resolution.
Fact of the matter is you either want to help or you don't. You either choose to help or you don't. What others think of that does not change what it is, that's just their opinion at that moment and they could even see it differently moments later, so disregard that and stand up for your own. If you want to want to help then you should choose for that over how others see it or how they might respond. You won't hurt them, but holding yourself back from being true to yourself won't help them either.
The reactions and reasons others give you for your actions form a pattern in your eyes of how you think they want you to be. You don't want to fit into that pattern or you wouldn't have this issue. And when you resolve it you will find that others don't really mean that pattern you made up from their reactions nor want you to conform to it. And I think you'll find they don't want that for the same reason you don't.
Okay what you said was totally illogical.
"Not helping doesn't leave someone helpless"
That is a total oxymoron. Also who the hell said something about making my reputation look good?
And don't bulls**t me with that reverse psychology. Everyone, when giving advice, forces their opinions or views on another person, just as you have by suggesting that he should do what he feels is right. That is your belief just as my belief is that he should help people more.
And also don't put words in my mouth. I did not saying that not helping someone makes him selfish. I said his view on the topic was a little bit selfish, not the person itself because those differ totally.
Read my posts a little bit better before you try disproving it.
"Not helping doesn't leave someone helpless"
That is a total oxymoron. Also who the hell said something about making my reputation look good?
And don't bulls**t me with that reverse psychology. Everyone, when giving advice, forces their opinions or views on another person, just as you have by suggesting that he should do what he feels is right. That is your belief just as my belief is that he should help people more.
And also don't put words in my mouth. I did not saying that not helping someone makes him selfish. I said his view on the topic was a little bit selfish, not the person itself because those differ totally.
Read my posts a little bit better before you try disproving it.
If Kevin doesn't help someone then that doesn't mean that someone can't be helped at all. The person can still help himself or be helped by someone else. Like I said, he is not left helpless. Kevin doesn't need to feel pressured into helping this community with anything. It's entirely up to him and the rest will just have to live with whatever he decides to do with himself.
I never said anything about your reputation, I just pointed out that if you help someone just to take credit for helping then that's also selfish. Forcing your opinion on someone is totally different from concepts like suggestion and giving advice. Neither you or I are forcing our opinions on anyone in this matter. I said that just like you label his opinion in this matter I could label anyone's. My point was that trying to put a label like selfishness on it like that just isn't very practical and won't help kevin in this issue.
You being anyone in general.
Both my points here ad up to why I think he should decide on his own merit what to do with it. And why I think he can. Anything but that can only be explanation of how we understand his problem and why he's in that situation. He can take that into consideration and hopefully it shows him some possiblities he can use.
In any case calling my post illogical, saying hell and bullshit, and claiming I put words in your mouth and that I don't understand what you said is uncalled for, unnessecary, and counterproductive towards the purpose of this thread.
I never said anything about your reputation, I just pointed out that if you help someone just to take credit for helping then that's also selfish. Forcing your opinion on someone is totally different from concepts like suggestion and giving advice. Neither you or I are forcing our opinions on anyone in this matter. I said that just like you label his opinion in this matter I could label anyone's. My point was that trying to put a label like selfishness on it like that just isn't very practical and won't help kevin in this issue.
You being anyone in general.
Both my points here ad up to why I think he should decide on his own merit what to do with it. And why I think he can. Anything but that can only be explanation of how we understand his problem and why he's in that situation. He can take that into consideration and hopefully it shows him some possiblities he can use.
In any case calling my post illogical, saying hell and bullshit, and claiming I put words in your mouth and that I don't understand what you said is uncalled for, unnessecary, and counterproductive towards the purpose of this thread.
The way you said it presented an oxymoron. Also that post was anything, but uncalled for, unnecessary, and counterproductive because I was simply clearing up what I thought was a wrong, and unjust attack for me. This was later cleared up by your post above, and now I consider the discussion over. Thank you.
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driesguldolf
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Hmmm, the last thing you should do if you helped someone and he 'turns his back to you' is to get angry, actually getting angry NEVER helps (there are exceptions tough).
I prefer to see giving help as an opportunity for myself, if I see someone who has a problem and asks for help then you might learn from his problem, maybe you never really tought about it, or you can read what other people's solutions are and gain new insights.
I dont want to protect those people who are rude when you help them because I always appreciate when people say "Uberness!!! You Are Da Masta!!!
:worship:" 
If what halifax and hop doesn't convince you then maybe you should consider to see "giving help" as an opportunity to gain new insights and thank the asshole for this enlightment, really if you want to kick someone's ass be nice to him while he's angry, people will choose the nice and friendly person over the angry guy (altough this is not always true
)
I prefer to see giving help as an opportunity for myself, if I see someone who has a problem and asks for help then you might learn from his problem, maybe you never really tought about it, or you can read what other people's solutions are and gain new insights.
I dont want to protect those people who are rude when you help them because I always appreciate when people say "Uberness!!! You Are Da Masta!!!
:worship:" If what halifax and hop doesn't convince you then maybe you should consider to see "giving help" as an opportunity to gain new insights and thank the asshole for this enlightment, really if you want to kick someone's ass be nice to him while he's angry, people will choose the nice and friendly person over the angry guy (altough this is not always true
)
Well, people lead complex lives. Everyone is dealing with their own personal motives in the background, that's going to make some occasional ingratitude par for the course.
There is one thing I don't understand. At one point you said you weren't looking for any kind of reward. Yet from the looks of it, you expected the personal recognition to last longer. Truth is, anyone can turn, even when they're in your debt. Sometimes they apologize. And sometimes they really are just out for themselves and hopefully get what's coming to them. But like I said, we all have to deal with it. Your best bet is to take it with a gain of salt, or deal with the issue head-on, rather than carry it around forever as personal baggage.
There is one thing I don't understand. At one point you said you weren't looking for any kind of reward. Yet from the looks of it, you expected the personal recognition to last longer. Truth is, anyone can turn, even when they're in your debt. Sometimes they apologize. And sometimes they really are just out for themselves and hopefully get what's coming to them. But like I said, we all have to deal with it. Your best bet is to take it with a gain of salt, or deal with the issue head-on, rather than carry it around forever as personal baggage.
My diet consists of nails, code-stealers, and HP fans.
Projects:
Robot War [TI-82, TI Flash App]
Sonic the Hedgehog [Multiplatform]
Projects:
Robot War [TI-82, TI Flash App]
Sonic the Hedgehog [Multiplatform]
actually my new habit to not help isn't very intentional, it's just that I don't trust lot of people anymore. I can help if i want though, it's just that when its one of your best friend (I will not name anyone here since one of them was met online on another TI forum and still go here sometimes) who do that it's hard to trust people afterward
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King Harold
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yeah it make sense hop and i agree with your point, as well as some of halifax's. Only thing is that I,ve never expected in life that when somebody change he can dump some of his best friends like this.
I wouldn't call it paranoia though, because my case would need to be more extreme for this and i would probably show it even more
And I totally missed nanowar post, no its not the reason why i stopped coding, i stopped just due to my loss of interest and my moving into music
I wouldn't call it paranoia though, because my case would need to be more extreme for this and i would probably show it even more
And I totally missed nanowar post, no its not the reason why i stopped coding, i stopped just due to my loss of interest and my moving into music