Which is worse: ME or Vista?

[threefingeredguy]

OSX's UI is based on Nextstep. Its GUI (the brushed metal or whatever) was around long before the compiz stuff was demo'd.

[hop]

And brushed metal is glassy how exactly?

[anykey]

If I take my contacts out, I can somewhat see glass...

[benryves]

Me - built on Windows 9x.
Vista - built on Windows NT.

What was your question again?

Bear in mind that Vista's "shiny" new interface uses 3D video memory, so it's hogging resources that wouldn't normally be taxed. This also results in a smoother, faster interface (this is, of course, assuming you have a half-decent D3D9 card).

The advantages are really for developers (do end-users really care if something uses D3D8 or D3D10? No, but it makes development rather different), though the shell enhancements (breadcrumbs and start menu search) are ace. Transactional NTFS is also a handy new feature.

I am very fond of one thing that Me introduced - System Restore - so it does redeem itself slightly for that.

[threefingeredguy]

And brushed metal is glassy how exactly?

You're the one who said Apple stole it. I was just pointing out that you were wrong. Apple doesn't really have a glass look.
Also is this just your "post flame-bait" account?

[hop]

Actually I partially disagree with the resource hogging, or at least the latter part of it. Compared to previous Windows versions the resources are managemed much better (and XP already was a huge improvement). It just uses more while it's in use, that's all, just like any other new OS does. Problem with Vista is that there's no use for it yet, so no need to stress your hardware even if it is half-decent.

And yes end-users do care about D3D version. Different versions bring different possiblities (see shaders for example). Anybody who does anything with hardware rendering (including games) should already know this.

Breadcrumbs and the new toolbars are ass. A ">" copied from UI solutions from the 80s that I have to click on to see an ugly list of file names? Sigh, UI designers, I have 1.3 million pixels available on my screen and that's sub-par these days, use them for fuck's sake. Yet another linear menu (of all things) isn't going to improve my productivity. The new categorisation of elements and tools (especially the configuration stuff) is just plain pathetic. I'm not even going to go into the actual graphics for various icons and windows, because there either are none or they're the same things from Windows XP but with all the colours turned white. WOW.

At least Aero is used consistently in Vista, unlike OS X's window themeing.

Widgets/docks COULD be usefull, but neither Microsoft nor Apple have ever used the technology as it should be. I'm not sure anyone has. And the way they have it can simply be replaced by selected third party applications or an ordinary traybar.

I've never seen system restore used. Either your hardware fails and it's useless, or it's your own fault for screwing up the software (you chose ME, doh : P).

And brushed metal is glassy how exactly?

You're the one who said Apple stole it. I was just pointing out that you were wrong. Apple doesn't really have a glass look.
Also is this just your "post flame-bait" account?

I said Apple was inspired by the technology shown in the Sun demo. Technology as in more than just the glass theme, like spaces and widgets. Apple doesn't have a glass theme YET, but you should really know that they will in the future.

Widgets in OS X just happened to be released a short while after the Sun demo, for example, and "spaces" are coming in OS X Leopard.

Is this your "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about" account?

[benryves]

I've never seen system restore used. Either your hardware fails and it's useless, or it's your own fault for screwing up the software (you chose ME, doh : P).

I have never used Me on my own system (skipping from 95 to 2000). That said, yes, I've got some rubbish hardware (AC'97 motherboard audio) which used to start crackling in games which could be fixed with a quick system restore. Thankfully I've moved onto an Audigy and not had to run System Restore since, but it's still a nice feature to have in case something goes tits-up.

[threefingeredguy]

Is this your "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about" account?

Technically it is because it's my only account.
I said that mostly as a subtle question as to why you have two accounts.

[hop]

I've never seen system restore used. Either your hardware fails and it's useless, or it's your own fault for screwing up the software (you chose ME, doh : P).

I have never used Me on my own system (skipping from 95 to 2000). That said, yes, I've got some rubbish hardware (AC'97 motherboard audio) which used to start crackling in games which could be fixed with a quick system restore. Thankfully I've moved onto an Audigy and not had to run System Restore since, but it's still a nice feature to have in case something goes tits-up.

I ment you as in used to refer to an indefinitely specified person. ; )

Onboard audio ain't all that bad, yeah crackling is, but PC audio is rubbish anyway, $200 sound card or not. As long as it has 192kHz output an external amplifier and quality monitors are much more important.

Is this your "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about" account?

Technically it is because it's my only account.
I said that mostly as a subtle question as to why you have two accounts.

; ) meh the name got old.

[King Harold]

I have read about the differences between D3D9 and D3D10, of course the 10 version is slightly better, but is it worth having to switch to Vista for? I say no. D3D9 can and in most cases does use shaders, even D3D8 can use shaders although they aren't used as much with D3D8 as with D3D9, probably because the shaders supported by D3D8 aren't all that powerful. Shader model 4 which is supported only by D3D10 (and up probably in years to come) offers only a few advantages over shader model 3. True, the geometry shader can come in handy, like you can see on nvidia's site, but do normal users really want to buy an expensive video card to support D3D10 when the grafics commonly seen in D3D9 apps are nice enough for most already? bear in mind that gamers are not the average end-users.. in fact, there are people who wouldn't even need a video card if they had XP.

[benryves]

I have read about the differences between D3D9 and D3D10, of course the 10 version is slightly better, but is it worth having to switch to Vista for?

It is essential to switch to Vista for D3D10 as it relies on the new driver model (VDDM). Treating the graphics hardware as a shared resource (hooray, no more lost devices) is a rather extensive change, as is dropping the fixed-function pipeline - though the end user won't know this. This applies to developers. Take a look here for more information.

in fact, there are people who wouldn't even need a video card if they had XP.

I assume you're referring to hardware acceleration; disable hardware acceleration on your card or uninstall your card drivers, then say that again.

[hop]

Hence why D3D10 isn't Vista's selling point for the office/non gamer environment, but things like Aero and "WOW" (wow @ price tag) are.

[King Harold]

It is essential to switch to Vista for D3D10 as it relies on the new driver model (VDDM). Treating the graphics hardware as a shared resource (hooray, no more lost devices) is a rather extensive change, as is dropping the fixed-function pipeline - though the end user won't know this. This applies to developers. Take a look here for more information.

Exactly. So if you want it then you have to switch to Vista, the question was: is it worth it? I still say no.
As said earlier: the end-users won't give a shit whether the programs they like use D3D9 or D3D10 just so long as they work and are cool.
(I admit I 'tried' Vista for the D3D10 examples..)

I assume you're referring to hardware acceleration; disable hardware acceleration on your card or uninstall your card drivers, then say that again.

I'm not one of those people who still think a computer is an electronic typewriter, but there are plenty of people who are. Like half of my teachers - the older ones, forexample. The type who disables visual themes and uses the classical start-menu. The same ones who would cut/paste BY HAND!! (OMG!) and then COPY it

they wouldn't care much for Aero either..

[necro]

Just get a Mac.

hahahahahahaha...why? Seriuously...why? I buy pcs because they are chaeper, have more software, and are the only thing you can get a job working with/programing for. On the other hand, mac...well...yeah...fails

[threefingeredguy]

You can't get a job programming macs? I'd better return that money and call Apple and give them a warning.