CPU Benchmarks, from 1995 CPUs to 2005 CPUs

[currahee]

Heh yeah, monochrome games. Oh well. Maybe not if the games are like $19 apiece but like $.50 would be more reasonable

[coelurus]

And what about just copying games? You'd only get a few bucks or so for games and then they'd spread rather quickly. Wouldn't give much

As CoBB said, an OS should only be a layer to make a general interface, or atleast a general mechanism for the interface, for the computer. I often get the idea of trying to make my own similar OS just for fun, but time won't let me
Another important thing is to not make computers too user-friendly. When regular users start toying around, things can get ugly and the real know-hows have to suffer. Computers aren't simple, so one shouldn't pretend they are...

[CoBB]

The hard part is what Alan Cooper calls cognitive friction. A computer has too many unexposed internal states, and most people are incapable of creating the appropriate mental model to handle it (keep track of what's going on inside).

[benryves]

I'm sorry to go against what a lot of you guys have said, but here goes:
Windows itself is no longer a problem to run. In fact, it never really has been. However, the way it was organised meant that you could easily screw it up - for example, letting people install ActiveX controls easily through IE, or by being targetted by virus writers - as a matter of fact, I have to attribute a lot of Windows' bad rep to bad users. People who see "Do you want to install free XXX toolbar!! Over 18s only!!" and click "Yes". Linux hasn't got that because you need to be fairly computer savvy to get it done.
WindowsXP [especially SP2] fixes a lot of that. IE6 is now pretty tight [and I've got no spyware on my machine and browse only with IE. I choose IE over other browsers owing to cost (I'm not going to pay for Opera) or stability issues (Firefox is too erratic and unstable owing to lower QA - there're some good articles on people stress testing the Mozilla engine and seeing that it tends to go pretty nasty on lots of deliberately messed up HTML)]. WindowsXP now silently updates itself and installs patches without you even having to know. Microsoft have locked down a lot of the OS into a "user friendly" status to stop people from cocking up their own machines. Thankfully you can get access to all the advanced settings with a little know how, and that keeps nosey people out of potentially dangerous parts of the OS.
Imagine for a moment that everyone that bought a new PC had it preloaded with Linux. How long would the average Joe Compuser have before he totally screws it up? I wouldn't have thought it would take him long at all, if he got his hands on the root password.
Microsoft had to make a choice - go the way of making the OS harder to mess up and get it to keep itself in shape, or add loads of cool new features. I'm glad they went for the former. I don't have to do anything to keep my PC in shape, it maintains itself. After all, isn't the OS just there as a platform for the applications? I don't want it to be super-cool, I just want it to work and work well.
Surprisingly for MS and their general image as a company that churns out slow, clunky interfaces I'm very happy with the WindowsXP one - it's clean [especially if switched to the standard grey theme] and very fast in comparison to something like X or whatever it is that MacOSX uses [yes, I've had the misfortune to use a G5. Never again!] Well done them.
I haven't had much of a play with Linux [well, the graphical side - I use the command line for work here and it's not much fun] but from what I've seen the interfaces are slow, cluttered and inconsistent. Whether it is that I've just seen bad examples of these, I don't know. My desktop has 3 icons: My Documents, My Computer and Recycle Bin. My start menu is categorised neatly and I uninstall any programs I don't use any more.
When trying to use Linux I've been bombarded with overly flashy themes, cluttered menus, loads of extra crap loaded into the bar at the bottom [who needs to know what the weather is via an applet on the bar - can't they just look out of the window?]. MacOSX is just... freaky. Other [older] OSs, such as BeOS or RISCOS tend to use pretty simple and intuitive interfaces.

[CoBB]

Ben, we all know already. But the C64 is still the BEST home platform out there. Period. I'm sure you didn't see this one coming.

[blueskies]

but from what I've seen the interfaces are slow, cluttered and inconsistent. Whether it is that I've just seen bad examples of these, I don't know. My desktop has 3 icons: My Documents, My Computer and Recycle Bin. My start menu is categorised neatly and I uninstall any programs I don't use any more.
When trying to use Linux I've been bombarded with overly flashy themes, cluttered menus, loads of extra crap loaded into the bar at the bottom [who needs to know what the weather is via an applet on the bar - can't they just look out of the window?]. MacOSX is just... freaky. Other [older] OSs, such as BeOS or RISCOS tend to use pretty simple and intuitive interfaces.

As with Windows, many of these "cluttered" interfaces are very customizable. For example...



I have nothing on my desktop. Menus are organized, etc. You can't say that this is only possible on windows. If anything, you have more options for a streamlined interface with Linux. Have you tried Ice or XFCE? Those are some damn clean interfaces. And the weather applets and such...also optional.

A computer is what you make of it. I was perfectly happy with windows as far as spyware/adware because I was fairly active in keeping it low. I didn't install useless programs, kept all the scanners up to date, etc. My roommate, for example, barely knows how to turn his computer on, and complains ALL THE TIME about how slow his computer runs. I look over and see 15 or so programs running in his taskbar (like weatherbug, for example). Basically, if you know what you're doing, you won't have too many problems. The one great thing Microsoft has done is make an OS that is so idiotproof that even Grandma can check her email. They've helped bring computers into every home in the world, basically. In order to do this though, they had to take away a lot of the control that someone should have over their computer, and have it run the way they see fit. This level of control has its ups and downs, of course, but I'm sure you're bored reading now, so I'll stop typing.

[benryves]

Ben, we all know already. But the C64 is still the BEST home platform out there. Period. I'm sure you didn't see this one coming.

BBC Micro > *

@blueskies: I was referring to what I've seen as the "default" in most distributions I've looked into. I guessed you could customise it, but hadn't investigated much.

[CoBB]

Actually, it's an important point. Many distros have just overloaded their GUIs. Debian is quite a 'nice' example: simply apt-getting kde brings you lots of useless dead weight you just can't get rid of easily. I simply don't have the patience to go through my installed packages and uninstall the unnedeed ones one by one, because there are so many of them. This is a bad thing. The good thing is that there are really lightweight alternatives for GUI, which even Ben couldn't perceive as sluggish.

Windows isn't better in this sense either. The only thing I can see that my Windows dir is over 2 gigs despite all my efforts to maintain a clean system. Purging programs (I mean really purging them) works better under Linux, at least those with a sane package system.

I'm generally satisfied with the interface of XP, but stability is still not the best; if a program eats up all the CPU time for some reason, the system might easily be rendered unusable while still working 'on paper'. The only time I encountered such a situation in Linux I got a complete freeze that lasted for a few seconds, then everything became perfectly responsive again. Fixing this for Windows would need fundamental changes in the core, which is unlikely to happen for a long time.

The best thing one can do is getting to know both systems in their depth. It helps to get rid of the urge of starting OS pissing contests.

I can't comment on the BBC Micro, I don't have hands-on experience with it. But it sure must have its merits if it could win your heart.

[benryves]

Using the letter-dot syntax is shorthand. "L." is LIST. [you can type in a number, so "L. 10" would only show line 10]. I could erase line 10 by typing "10", or edit it by typing "10 NEW STUFF!". In fact, if I did "L. 10", moved my cursor to the start of one of the old lines and hit the "Copy" key on the keyboard I could copy bits of my old code across.

[currahee]

Windows is decent but not the best. It still has it's quirks that annoy me. It doesn't seem to handle all the stuff I throw at it. It just tends to "break"
But i'd say I would have a more of a love-hate relationship with Windows. I love how it supports tons and tons of hardware whereas on the Mac it supports a limited amount. I love how there are so much software for it. I hate how it can't handle the things I throw at it. Oh, and I also hate Internet Exploder. Who knows, I used to love it until Klez or w/e went into my computer (and yes, I had a firewall up too and no I didn't download it on purpose. The only possible way it could have gotten in through was IE).
I still don't trust IE 6 SP2
UI? I don't give jack for UI. Luna looks certainly much better than the gray bars... but I miss those too (and no the "Classic" theme doesn't exactly render the gray look. Common, where's the 95 start button window look? )
For MacOS X, I could care less for Apple. Why? Eye candy. That'd keep me off track for projects oh yeah, they also tend to crash on me it's like they know a windows user is using a mac... kinna weird.
Linux? Had bad installation experiences prolly because i'm on a laptop

[CoBB]

Using the letter-dot syntax is shorthand. "L." is LIST. [you can type in a number, so "L. 10" would only show line 10]. I could erase line 10 by typing "10", or edit it by typing "10 NEW STUFF!". In fact, if I did "L. 10", moved my cursor to the start of one of the old lines and hit the "Copy" key on the keyboard I could copy bits of my old code across.

This is pretty much the same as the Commodore way, only the shorthand for LIST is L SHIFT-I there (and that generally holds for most tokens). Do you really need that semicolon in line 10?

[benryves]

Common, where's the 95 start button window look? )

Right-click the taskbar, click "Start Menu" tab, select "Classic Start menu".

Do you really need that semicolon in line 10?

Yep. The ";" after a string in a print command means "don't put a newline here!". QBASIC uses this syntax, IIRC, as does VB.

[currahee]

Psh, you should know that I know better than that, Ben. I'm talkin about the ugly Windows Start menu pic
http://www.informika.ru/text/inftech/pr ... 95/r49.gif
Like the one in there. The one in winXP is too.. clean that it's strange