Please consider the following

Arcane WIzard · Post by **Arcane WIzard** » Thu 07 Dec, 2006 9:04 pm

That might be because you don't know what you're talking about.

Pure HTML doesn't make money. None. Your customers know how to use Microsoft Office, which would out-do you in anything and everything.

Staying away from code is not the best way to make webpages.

Java applets aren't server side, Java web services (JSP, Servlets, Portlets, etc) are and Java applets aren't from hell. However, if you want to run a proper J2EE server, you'll need loads of time to design and build applications for it and a sweet as hell rig to run it all on. So don't worry about this to start with, it's just nowhere near pratical for a single person to develop on. Once you do though.. this (or .NET) is where the big bucks roll.

Though Javascript is to be avoided unless it's benefitial, that applies to ALL practises. Staying away from Javascript just because some interweb nerd told you is the last thing you should do, especially since web 2.0 is the new buzz word for making money. Also, many appearance features simply aren't possible in a single implementation of a website on all popular browsers without Javascript. It can also add agreat amount of usability (things that guide the visitor through his workinogs on the site) to a page, especially with AJAX. Autocomplete in searches, and arranging the layout are but small simple examples of this that make people want to pay you loads of money.

Don't bother with flash actionscript or java applets unless you have to show media content that you want to be a bit more universally viewable than codecs and videoplayers are. Like youtube and google video do. For a single developer anything else in this area is just too time-consuming to develop well enough that it actually adds something over html + javascript. Client side. Though they are also nice for introductory films or animations, but forget about newsgrounds style cheezy flashy things. Out with that, in with enterprise suitable business things. Like some businessmen in suits introducing the site's owners (a company) with some cut ins of the work environment and products. (camera is usefull here)

C isn't good for starters. It won't benefit you in any way unless you go into .NET where you'll have to learn much more theory than you would with scripting languages like PHP or Perl. Unless you want to completely indulge in C embedded systems programming or something and code things without GUIs for 60 hours a week, which I highly doubt you want to do.

Human interaction (display on screen and get input) is only a small part of a completely functioning webpage, don't kid yourself if you ever want to sell your code or maintain it, this is just what the customer sees Though important, good luck doing your job when the rest of the code isn't up to par.

With PHP or Perl there's the beauty of the increadibly light server software requirements and increadibly high amounts of available libraries that suit any web developer's needs quite well. With the right downloads and prepration all you ever have to work on for a new project is the business logic and then it's on to CSS and image styling. Unless you're running thousands of instances scripts on one server at once you won't even have to care about things like connection pooling or memory management. (only host your own things that are under development yourself, things you sold are the customer's hosting's concern, or a mispractise you learnt at the start of your server's life might bite you in the ass a year later and cause you months of delay becausee you have to fix 200 websites. Unelss you have the resources to do so.)

Timendus · Post by **Timendus** » Thu 07 Dec, 2006 9:19 pm

Woops, I see I had forgotten to press "Submit" on this one... I guess I'm a bit late now, but whatever

thegamefreak0134 wrote:You should avoid JavaScript however, for 3 reasons. (1) It only runs properly on internet explorer, (2) It has security flaws in internet explorer, and thus (3) Many people either avoid internet explorer or turn it off. Those who dont keep people like Norton in business.

It runs just as well or better in Mozilla, and it's the driving force behind every non-static website, so discarding it as a useless virus catcher seems a bit odd to me... You should take a look at dynamic HTML, "AJAX", the Google Web Toolkit, Dojo, et cetera... Everything that bears the label "Web 2.0" uses Javascript extensively.

Post by **CDI** » Fri 08 Dec, 2006 9:28 pm

For the record. ChatZilla, as crappy as it may be, is JavaScript and CSS from what I have heard

Anywho... someone was kind enough to donate $120 to me yesterday so I bought the camera. Thanks to those that donated!

KevinJB · Post by **KevinJB** » Fri 08 Dec, 2006 10:11 pm

Congrats, glad to hear it

Second of all, there are many many many programs that will do the whole HTML bit for you (Dreamweaver is extremely nice in this respect) and as an added bonus let you test any homemade code out right there in the window, and point the errors out. Not to mention the wealth of tutorials online and around the net. The best way to actually learn to make web pages is to keep away from the code until you understand it or need to use it for something. (Of course I prefer to design in pure HTML, but that's just me.)

As for the actual "Programming" of web pages, there are several options. By far the most reliable ways of executing script on a page are server side script (in which the server does some stuff and spits results out to the browser, like php or cgi) and java applets (which are client side applications from hell.) You should avoid JavaScript however, for 3 reasons. (1) It only runs properly on internet explorer, (2) It has security flaws in internet explorer, and thus (3) Many people either avoid internet explorer or turn it off. Those who dont keep people like Norton in business.

I think if someone were to set about explaining how not to get started in web development, they would aim for something like this.

1. Dreamweaver is horrible.
2. "The best way to actually learn to make web pages is to keep away from the code until you understand it or need to use it for something." - What? Maybe you meant the opposite?
3. "You should avoid JavaScript however, for 3 reasons. (1) It only runs properly on internet explorer, (2) It has security flaws in internet explorer, and thus (3) Many people either avoid internet explorer or turn it off. Those who dont keep people like Norton in business." 1) Complete BS, 2) Yeah, if you code like a moron, but then I suppose that's true for any language, and 3) More BS.

Javascript is not meant to replace anything serverside at all, I don't know where you got that silly notion. Using pure HTML is stupid - you might want to try CSS. You should write as much code as you possibly can when you are starting to learn a language - avoiding it isn't going to help you at all, much less the best way to learn it.

and Java apps are great, but I don't think you really understand how different things are supposed to fit together (Javascript isn't supposed to be like PHP, Java isn't supposed to be like Javascript, and so on. They are all meant for different purposes)

threefingeredguy · Post by **threefingeredguy** » Sat 09 Dec, 2006 5:47 am

I sent 5 bucks.

threefingeredguy · Post by **threefingeredguy** » Sat 09 Dec, 2006 5:48 am

Timendus wrote:Woops, I see I had forgotten to press "Submit" on this one... I guess I'm a bit late now, but whatever

thegamefreak0134 wrote:You should avoid JavaScript however, for 3 reasons. (1) It only runs properly on internet explorer, (2) It has security flaws in internet explorer, and thus (3) Many people either avoid internet explorer or turn it off. Those who dont keep people like Norton in business.
It runs just as well or better in Mozilla, and it's the driving force behind every non-static website, so discarding it as a useless virus catcher seems a bit odd to me... You should take a look at dynamic HTML, "AJAX", the Google Web Toolkit, Dojo, et cetera... Everything that bears the label "Web 2.0" uses Javascript extensively.

It works perfectly (and fastest) in Opera.

Post by **Patori** » Sat 09 Dec, 2006 8:15 am

If my bank account wasn't in the red...

I would donate...

KevinJB · Post by **KevinJB** » Sat 09 Dec, 2006 1:15 pm

It works perfectly (and fastest) in Opera.

Pff. Javascript does not work perfect in Opera. Sorry.

Post by **tr1p1ea** » Sun 10 Dec, 2006 1:54 am

Does it work 'perfect' in anything?

kalan_vod · Post by **kalan_vod** » Sun 10 Dec, 2006 2:07 am

tr1p1ea wrote:Does it work 'perfect' in anything?

In Bills' dreams...
"OMG IT A BLUE SCREeN!"

threefingeredguy · Post by **threefingeredguy** » Sun 10 Dec, 2006 6:41 am

KevinJB wrote:
It works perfectly (and fastest) in Opera.
Pff. Javascript does not work perfect in Opera. Sorry.

Yeah, I know.