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Arcane WIzard
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Post by Arcane WIzard »

You are the one that said that 1tb hard drives didn't exist in any market that I could get to.
OR I would have to conclude that the free market is more open to retards than I thought. Which I did. Learn to understand complete statements.
And no, you weren't just talking about 1tb solutions in general, becuase you specifically said that the price that I was talking about was twice as high as is currently reasonable.
That was specifically what I said, but what I said wasn't specific towards which exact price or solution, just that your overal prices are unreasonable for this purpose.
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Post by CompWiz »

Arcane WIzard wrote:
You are the one that said that 1tb hard drives didn't exist in any market that I could get to.
OR I would have to conclude that the free market is more open to retards than I thought. Which I did. Learn to understand complete statements.
Why do you feel the need to decend to personal insults? Do you think that using them will help your failing argument? You said:
Arcane WIzard wrote:1TB drives aren't on the market you could get to
Which was obviously false, but I'm guessing that was due to your ignorance, rather than deliberate lying.

And no, you weren't just talking about 1tb solutions in general, becuase you specifically said that the price that I was talking about was twice as high as is currently reasonable.
That was specifically what I said, but what I said wasn't specific towards which exact price or solution, just that your overal prices are unreasonable for this purpose.
So, basically, you're saying that the prices that I quoted were, generally, and/or on average unreasonable, and twice as high as what was reasonable. That's funny, because a couple posts back I went over the prices that I posted, and showed just how reasonable they were. Not even you could find one of those hard drives for half of my quoted price.

Also, the price that I used for 1tb of hard drive space was the price that you stated. You are the one that said that it would cost $180 for a terabyte, not me. So, are you saying that your price that you said was unreasonable?

Here are the prices I talked about. Tell me how these are overal twice as high as is reasonable:

400gb: $84
1tb(external): $650
1tb(multiple internal hard drives): $180(as you stated)
1tb of DVDRW's: $173.45
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Post by Arcane WIzard »

Arcane WIzard wrote:1TB drives aren't on the market you could get to yet, let alone $100, no.
Which was obviously false
Don't forget about the bolded part, and read:
But I disctinctly said they wheren't on any markets he could get to. Then again, the boundaries of stupidity and marketing coupled together in what we call "free market" never ceases to amaze me.
Also, I already replied to that saying I was surprised. I didn't know they taught monkeys to buy harddrives yet, let alone you.
Again, going on and on about something I've already answered several times leads me to conclude:
Which leads me back to why this is going nowhere. You don't even understand what I just said. You're that incompetent.
Why do you feel the need to decend to personal insults? Do you think that using them will help your failing argument?
Apparently you still want me to keep repeating myself:
Fortunately for me, I'm smart enough to recognize this, and enough of an asshole not to care about wether you actually use the best solution possible but rather wether you're insulted enough for being too stupid to do so. Hence why I'm not repeating my points over and over again like some retard who thinks people aren't too stupid to be convinced of anything.
Period.
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Post by CompWiz »

And no, you weren't just talking about 1tb solutions in general, becuase you specifically said that the price that I was talking about was twice as high as is currently reasonable.
That was specifically what I said, but what I said wasn't specific towards which exact price or solution, just that your overal prices are unreasonable for this purpose.
So, basically, you're saying that the prices that I quoted were, generally, and/or on average unreasonable, and twice as high as what was reasonable. That's funny, because a couple posts back I went over the prices that I posted, and showed just how reasonable they were. Not even you could find one of those hard drives for half of my quoted price.

Also, the price that I used for 1tb of hard drive space was the price that you stated. You are the one that said that it would cost $180 for a terabyte, not me. So, are you saying that your price that you said was unreasonable?

Here are the prices I talked about. Tell me how these are overal twice as high as is reasonable:

400gb: $84
1tb(external): $650
1tb(multiple internal hard drives): $180(as you stated)
1tb of DVDRW's: $173.45
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Post by Arcane WIzard »

400gb: $84 - N\A not a terrabyte
1tb(external): $650 - N\A external + too high
1tb(multiple internal hard drives): $180(as you stated) - N\A you copied that price from me
1tb of DVDRW's: $173.45 - not a harddrive

Try again.

Also, unless you don`t need your data any more after 4 years, you`re going to have to keep paying. Will end up far higher than 180 + connection + damages.
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Post by leofox »

CompWiz wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:
You are the one that said that 1tb hard drives didn't exist in any market that I could get to.
OR I would have to conclude that the free market is more open to retards than I thought. Which I did. Learn to understand complete statements.
Why do you feel the need to decend to personal insults? Do you think that using them will help your failing argument? You said:
Arcane WIzard wrote:1TB drives aren't on the market you could get to
Which was obviously false, but I'm guessing that was due to your ignorance, rather than deliberate lying.

And no, you weren't just talking about 1tb solutions in general, becuase you specifically said that the price that I was talking about was twice as high as is currently reasonable.
That was specifically what I said, but what I said wasn't specific towards which exact price or solution, just that your overal prices are unreasonable for this purpose.
So, basically, you're saying that the prices that I quoted were, generally, and/or on average unreasonable, and twice as high as what was reasonable. That's funny, because a couple posts back I went over the prices that I posted, and showed just how reasonable they were. Not even you could find one of those hard drives for half of my quoted price.

Also, the price that I used for 1tb of hard drive space was the price that you stated. You are the one that said that it would cost $180 for a terabyte, not me. So, are you saying that your price that you said was unreasonable?

Here are the prices I talked about. Tell me how these are overal twice as high as is reasonable:

400gb: $84
1tb(external): $650
1tb(multiple internal hard drives): $180(as you stated)
1tb of DVDRW's: $173.45
Where the hell do you buy your DVDs? I just bought 25 DVDRs for 8€, ~ 100GB. it'd be only 80€ for 250DVDs. DVDRWs cant be that much more expensive. And who uses RWs anyway.. they are slower than +R, and most of the time i burn my data only once because i want to keep it. I can imagine using SOME RWs for data that frequently changes, but not 250 of 'em...
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Post by CompWiz »

If you wanted to keep a current backup using dvd's, then you'd have to get RW's. And if you think the prices are bad, just look it up on newegg. That's what they go for. Also, make sure not to consider any of the bad brands.
Arcane WIzard wrote:400gb: $84 - N\A not a terrabyte
1tb(external): $650 - N\A external + too high
1tb(multiple internal hard drives): $180(as you stated) - N\A you copied that price from me
1tb of DVDRW's: $173.45 - not a harddrive

Try again.

Also, unless you don`t need your data any more after 4 years, you`re going to have to keep paying. Will end up far higher than 180 + connection + damages.
ok, so what price were you talking about? The external 1tb one? 1tb hard drives are expensive. The price I put for that is very reasonable. Just look it up if you don't believe me.

As to having to keep paying, let's say I went the hard drive route. I bought around 1tb of hard drive space for around $180. Now, lets say I increase the amount of space in my computer. Very likely, as programs take up more and more space. Not too long ago 1gb was huge, and now, you need hundreds to get a decent amount of storage. So, I'd have to increase the number of backup hard drives, spending more money. With carbonite, it's still the same flat rate, even if I doubled my storage. Also, hard drives fail. It's not uncommon. Let's say mine last a few years. However long they last, when they fail, I'll have to get new ones. That costs money. So, let me propose this situation, and tell me if it's unrealistic:

I increase my storage to 2tb, and same with the backup. so, total cost would be around $360. now, that's already the same cost as 8 years of Carbonite. So, let's say that my hard drives last, on average, around 6 years. So, every six years, on average, I'll have had to replace all of my hard drives. That means that it would in fact cost more. and 6 years is generous. Many hard drives fail long before that.

Now, I find it likely that someone would look at that and say that hard drives get cheaper all the time. More storage for less money. That's true. But, as price per gigabyte comes down, space requirements go up. So, as prices come down, people buy more storage, for around the same price, to keep up with programs. So, while hard drive prices will come down, I'll have to spend the same amount to keep up with increasing hard drive space requirements. Or do you really think that we won't need any more hard drive space in 6 years than we do today? How much hard drive space did your computer have 6 years ago? Mine had a whopping 20gb. That's nothing today. In fact, not even dirt-cheap budget computers today have that little space. So, it would only be logical to conclude that in 6 years, 1tb will be small, and, while price/gb is down, people will still be spending around the same amount of money on hard drives. So, basically, hard drives will cost more.
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Post by Arcane WIzard »

lol @ newegg

Why dont carbonite's harddrives fail? Why don't you get harddrives that last longer than 6 years for your silly price? Why don't you count interweb changes into your estimate future? Always gonna be uploading at lots of mbps? Will carbonite.com even excist in 6 years? Will their prices change? What if your connection fails during an overnight backup? What if it fails while you need your backed up data? Do you even know what an SLA is and why they exist?

Also, I can still manage fine with 20 GB, that I have more simply means I will use more, not that I need more. Still easily fits OS, software, current projects, and some music. Learn2usestoragemediums.

Just another noob who thinks reading the interweb means he knows something. I see them everywhere. Getting fired.
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Post by CompWiz »

Arcane WIzard wrote:lol @ newegg
yeah, newegg isn't my usual source for computer parts, but looking up DVDRW's on pricewatch just gives you a bunch of the bad brands, that'll be lucky if they only have a 50% coaster rate. And newegg's prices are usually fairly reasonable. Their cpu prices are generally good, and sometimes the lowest.
Arcane WIzard wrote:Why dont carbonite's harddrives fail?
They do. But unlike when your hard drive fails, Carbonite doesn't charge you extra if one of their hard drives fail. They replace it themselves. Therefore, cost to the user stays the same, and it really doesn't matter.
Arcane WIzard wrote:Why don't you get harddrives that last longer than 6 years for your silly price?
if you want to get higher quality hard drives, they cost more. More expensive to start with, and probably still more expensive in the long run.
Arcane WIzard wrote:Why don't you count interweb changes into your estimate future?
How would that make a difference?
Arcane WIzard wrote:Always gonna be uploading at lots of mbps?
why not? It's not like I'm planning to go back to dial-up. And chances are, internet connections will get faster and faster. I'm sure that in 6 years, 10 or even 100mb(or probably more) connections will be much more available in the US.

And anyway, after the initial backup, needed upload bandwidth decreases. It's not like I'm going to be adding gigabytes of stuff to my hard drive every day.

Arcane WIzard wrote:Will carbonite.com even excist in 6 years? Will their prices change?
There's no way of knowing if they will exist in 6 years. However, if they close up, I can always just use some other alternative. Perhaps in that time some other websites will start offering a similar service. I don't know, and, no one does. But if they close, I just will use that money to do some other backup.

Arcane WIzard wrote:What if your connection fails during an overnight backup?
You don't seem to understand how Carbonite works. their backup program automatically backs up all new and changed files continuously, using your unused internet bandwidth. Disconnecting from the internet only means that it will have to wait until a connection is re-established before it can continue keeping the online backup current. You can turn off your computer any time you want.
Arcane WIzard wrote:What if it fails while you need your backed up data?
Then, when your internet connection comes back up, you can restore your data then. Time Warner's usually pretty fast about fixing it, and it really doesn't fail very often.
Arcane WIzard wrote:Do you even know what an SLA is and why they exist?
What aspect of the service level agreement are you referring to?
Arcane WIzard wrote:Also, I can still manage fine with 20 GB, that I have more simply means I will use more, not that I need more. Still easily fits OS, software, current projects, and some music. Learn2usestoragemediums.
Yes, I know you can get on fine with 20gb, but it's very limiting, and the fact is, while it's possible, that's not what happens. Like you said, you use more. Do you absolutely need that extra space? No, but still, you spend money expanding your storage. Just like almost everyone else who uses a computer. And soon 20gb really will be obsolete. Soon it will be like the 20mg hard drives of times past. Fact is, you will need to upgrade your hard drive space at some point, or never install new software again.


And is it really neccesary to decend to the personal insults? Do you ever see me doing that? I've been in many arguments, and fought with reasoning and facts. Insults don't play any good part in an argument.
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Post by Arcane WIzard »

CompWiz wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:lol @ newegg
yeah, newegg isn't my usual source for computer parts, but looking up DVDRW's on pricewatch just gives you a bunch of the bad brands, that'll be lucky if they only have a 50% coaster rate. And newegg's prices are usually fairly reasonable. Their cpu prices are generally good, and sometimes the lowest.
But not cheaper than their source.
Arcane WIzard wrote:Why dont carbonite's harddrives fail?
They do. But unlike when your hard drive fails, Carbonite doesn't charge you extra if one of their hard drives fail. They replace it themselves. Therefore, cost to the user stays the same, and it really doesn't matter.
99% of all your own hd fails can be easily fixed and leave your files accesible to transfer them, when their drives fail for any reason then your data is simply gone.
if you want to get higher quality hard drives, they cost more. More expensive to start with, and probably still more expensive in the long run.
No shit, but you can get better for >$600.
Arcane WIzard wrote:Always gonna be uploading at lots of mbps?
why not? It's not like I'm planning to go back to dial-up. And chances are, internet connections will get faster and faster. I'm sure that in 6 years, 10 or even 100mb(or probably more) connections will be much more available in the US.
And I'm sure those will not always cost the same.
And anyway, after the initial backup, needed upload bandwidth decreases. It's not like I'm going to be adding gigabytes of stuff to my hard drive every day.
Then use a small cheap HD or DVDs or CDs to backup the changing data.
Arcane WIzard wrote:Will carbonite.com even excist in 6 years? Will their prices change?
There's no way of knowing if they will exist in 6 years. However, if they close up, I can always just use some other alternative. Perhaps in that time some other websites will start offering a similar service. I don't know, and, no one does. But if they close, I just will use that money to do some other backup.
And all your data will be gone, except maybe for a couple of mb you could download after they warn you.
Arcane WIzard wrote:What if your connection fails during an overnight backup?
You don't seem to understand how Carbonite works. their backup program automatically backs up all new and changed files continuously, using your unused internet bandwidth. Disconnecting from the internet only means that it will have to wait until a connection is re-established before it can continue keeping the online backup current. You can turn off your computer any time you want.
You don't seem to understand how file handles and data transfers work. Try unplugging your cable while it's backing up, plug it back in after a while, and see if you can use the backed up data. If their programmers suck it will be corrupted.
Arcane WIzard wrote:What if it fails while you need your backed up data?
Then, when your internet connection comes back up, you can restore your data then. Time Warner's usually pretty fast about fixing it, and it really doesn't fail very often.
If any node between your pc and carbonite fails you can't use your backups. Different nodes are managed by different people/companies. Run a tracert and see how many could fail you. Also, what is "fast" and "often"? If it happens once while you need a critical file handed in for an examn within minutes then you're screwed.
Arcane WIzard wrote:Do you even know what an SLA is and why they exist?
What aspect of the service level agreement are you referring to?
Yay you can google. You skipped the part of their purpose.
Do you absolutely need that extra space?
No and I don't have to back it up either.
And is it really neccesary to decend to the personal insults? Do you ever see me doing that? I've been in many arguments, and fought with reasoning and facts. Insults don't play any good part in an argument.
/care
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Post by CompWiz »

Arcane WIzard wrote:
CompWiz wrote:
ArcaneWIzard wrote:lol @ newegg
yeah, newegg isn't my usual source for computer parts, but looking up DVDRW's on pricewatch just gives you a bunch of the bad brands, that'll be lucky if they only have a 50% coaster rate. And newegg's prices are usually fairly reasonable. Their cpu prices are generally good, and sometimes the lowest.
But not cheaper than their source.
Ok, and how am I supposed to purchase stuff from their source? I can't exactly go buy 1000 cpu's for a bulk price.
Arcane WIzard wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:Why dont carbonite's harddrives fail?
They do. But unlike when your hard drive fails, Carbonite doesn't charge you extra if one of their hard drives fail. They replace it themselves. Therefore, cost to the user stays the same, and it really doesn't matter.
99% of all your own hd fails can be easily fixed and leave your files accesible to transfer them, when their drives fail for any reason then your data is simply gone.
Unless they have redundancy. And even if they don't(which they probably do) your data isn't lost, as it's just a backup. It just has to get backed up again. Also, if everyone's data is spread out across many of their hard drives, then you would only lose a little if one of their hard drives fail. However, they probably have redundancy, making all this speculation pointless.
Arcane WIzard wrote:
if you want to get higher quality hard drives, they cost more. More expensive to start with, and probably still more expensive in the long run.
No shit, but you can get better for >$600.
my point exactly. Far too high of a price.
Arcane WIzard wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:Always gonna be uploading at lots of mbps?
why not? It's not like I'm planning to go back to dial-up. And chances are, internet connections will get faster and faster. I'm sure that in 6 years, 10 or even 100mb(or probably more) connections will be much more available in the US.
And I'm sure those will not always cost the same.
Yeah, you're right. Prices usually drop for internet connections. Dial up used to cost around $20-30, and now you can get broadband for $14 a month. Chances are, in 6 years, you'll easily be able to get a cheaper connection that is much faster than cable internet that's around today. Wouldn't you agree? I don't see your point in this though.
Arcane WIzard wrote:
And anyway, after the initial backup, needed upload bandwidth decreases. It's not like I'm going to be adding gigabytes of stuff to my hard drive every day.
Then use a small cheap HD or DVDs or CDs to backup the changing data.
Changes can be in files across my hard drives. It's not like I have one folder that contains just the files that are new and the ones that I plan to change in the next few years. It would be much harder to maintain a backup that has a set data, and then the changed files from that backup in a seperate place. It would require a lot of my time to keep it up, which is exactly what I don't want. And it would be a lot harder to restore everything.
Arcane WIzard wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:Will carbonite.com even excist in 6 years? Will their prices change?
There's no way of knowing if they will exist in 6 years. However, if they close up, I can always just use some other alternative. Perhaps in that time some other websites will start offering a similar service. I don't know, and, no one does. But if they close, I just will use that money to do some other backup.
And all your data will be gone, except maybe for a couple of mb you could download after they warn you.
Not gone, just on my hard drives. I'd lose redundancy until I managed to get another backup system going, but I'd still have all the data. This isn't an online storage service, it's an online backup service.

And why do you think that they're just going to suddenly dissapear? In fact, I'd say the chances are greater of a backup hard drive that I buy failing in the next 6 years than Carbonite closing. So, my data is safer with them. I know a hard drive will fail eventually, but you can't say if Carbonite will close.

Arcane WIzard wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:What if your connection fails during an overnight backup?
You don't seem to understand how Carbonite works. their backup program automatically backs up all new and changed files continuously, using your unused internet bandwidth. Disconnecting from the internet only means that it will have to wait until a connection is re-established before it can continue keeping the online backup current. You can turn off your computer any time you want.
You don't seem to understand how file handles and data transfers work. Try unplugging your cable while it's backing up, plug it back in after a while, and see if you can use the backed up data. If their programmers suck it will be corrupted.
Ok, I'll try that. But, I'd be willing to bet that it will just re-backup that file. It tells me what file it is currently backing in the information panel, so, while it's backing up a large file, I'll unplug my internet, plug it back in, and try do restore that file. Would you like to make a wager? 50 maxcoins? I'll record the entire process and upload the video if you are willing to bet.
Arcane WIzard wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:What if it fails while you need your backed up data?
Then, when your internet connection comes back up, you can restore your data then. Time Warner's usually pretty fast about fixing it, and it really doesn't fail very often.
If any node between your pc and carbonite fails you can't use your backups. Different nodes are managed by different people/companies. Run a tracert and see how many could fail you. Also, what is "fast" and "often"? If it happens once while you need a critical file handed in for an examn within minutes then you're screwed.
Ok, but so far, my backup has been running smoothly, with no interruptions that would be caused by some node going down. So, it seems like this "danger" you're talking about is a very rare event, at least to the extent where it causes a site to go down.

Fast- usually within 24 hours.

not very often- once every few months.

Hmm, what are the chances that I will need an important file for some exam, and my hard drive just happens to corrupt it at the same time some unlikely internet problem occurs? Looking at it that way, it probably won't happen. And actually, a lot of my school projects and programs I store on my university's servers, so even if my hard drive got corrupted at the same time as my internet went down, I could just carry my laptop into school and get the file back/print it/submit it.
Arcane WIzard wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:Do you even know what an SLA is and why they exist?
What aspect of the service level agreement are you referring to?
Yay you can google. You skipped the part of their purpose.
ok, what part are you trying to draw my attention to?
Do you absolutely need that extra space?
No and I don't have to back it up either.
you don't need it, but you know that you'll use more space. And eventually you will need more space. Do you really doubt that at some point in the next few years, 1tb will be an entry-level amount of storage, that you really need if you intend to install new programs?
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Post by Arcane WIzard »

CompWiz wrote:
Arcane WIzard wrote:
CompWiz wrote: yeah, newegg isn't my usual source for computer parts, but looking up DVDRW's on pricewatch just gives you a bunch of the bad brands, that'll be lucky if they only have a 50% coaster rate. And newegg's prices are usually fairly reasonable. Their cpu prices are generally good, and sometimes the lowest.
But not cheaper than their source.
Ok, and how am I supposed to purchase stuff from their source? I can't exactly go buy 1000 cpu's for a bulk price.
Like I said, you can only get it cheaper if you know what you're doing. And you don't. And no you don't have to buy in bulk.
they probably have redundancy
You don't know? lol
Far too high of a price.
Your price.
Yeah, you're right. Prices usually drop for internet connections. Dial up used to cost around $20-30, and now you can get broadband for $14 a month. Chances are, in 6 years, you'll easily be able to get a cheaper connection that is much faster than cable internet that's around today. Wouldn't you agree? I don't see your point in this though.
For you internet access can only increase in costs since you're leeching daddy's connection.
Changes can be in files across my hard drives. It's not like I have one folder that contains just the files that are new and the ones that I plan to change in the next few years. It would be much harder to maintain a backup that has a set data, and then the changed files from that backup in a seperate place. It would require a lot of my time to keep it up, which is exactly what I don't want. And it would be a lot harder to restore everything.
1) Presentation != logical order. 2) rewritables. 3) Learn to manage files.
Not gone, just on my hard drives. I'd lose redundancy until I managed to get another backup system going, but I'd still have all the data. This isn't an online storage service, it's an online backup service.
May I suggest getting some actual experience with backup management first, you need it.
And why do you think that they're just going to suddenly dissapear? In fact, I'd say the chances are greater of a backup hard drive that I buy failing in the next 6 years than Carbonite closing. So, my data is safer with them. I know a hard drive will fail eventually, but you can't say if Carbonite will close.
Yes I can, and I can also laugh at you.
Ok, I'll try that. But, I'd be willing to bet that it will just re-backup that file. It tells me what file it is currently backing in the information panel, so, while it's backing up a large file, I'll unplug my internet, plug it back in, and try do restore that file. Would you like to make a wager? 50 maxcoins? I'll record the entire process and upload the video if you are willing to bet.
I don't want to see your lousy videos. Point is you are using a backup solution of which you have no idea how secure it is, how redundant, or even how you should best use it.
Fast- usually within 24 hours.
Horribly slow, sorry.
not very often- once every few months.
That's often.

Try <= once a year for <= 6 hours.
Hmm, what are the chances that I will need an important file for some exam, and my hard drive just happens to corrupt it at the same time some unlikely internet problem occurs?
Murphy's law. You obviously have no experience whatsoever. Corruption is far from the most likely culprit, which is you. Especially you.
Looking at it that way, it probably won't happen.
Well, i'mm sold.
And actually, a lot of my school projects and programs I store on my university's servers, so even if my hard drive got corrupted at the same time as my internet went down, I could just carry my laptop into school and get the file back/print it/submit it.
So besides using a crappy internet service you're trying to get free months for, people should get commercial-class internet connections and servers to backup their files?
Arcane WIzard wrote:
What aspect of the service level agreement are you referring to?
Yay you can google. You skipped the part of their purpose.
ok, what part are you trying to draw my attention to?
Can't point you anywhere because I actually know what I'm talking about so I don't have anything googled about it that I can link you to.
Or do you really think that we won't need any more hard drive space in 6 years than we do today?
No, and apparently you don't either. Then again, I'm not expecting you to know what you're own arguments mean.
Do you really doubt that at some point in the next few years, 1tb will be an entry-level amount of storage, that you really need if you intend to install new programs?
Yes.
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Post by Arcane WIzard »

1 minute google search says Carbonite currently has 125GB limit (subject to change without having to inform you, might rise, might fall, obviously nowhere near terrabytes).

Fail.


Also,
Carbonite does not currently back up files that are larger than 2GB in size, removable hard drives (e.g., USB drives) or mapped network drives.
Fail.

ps.
Requires Windows XP
Fail.
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